From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Thu May 14 21:02:44 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 580AA106566B for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 21:02:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peterjeremy@optushome.com.au) Received: from mail13.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail13.syd.optusnet.com.au [211.29.132.194]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCBD48FC16 for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 21:02:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peterjeremy@optushome.com.au) Received: from server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (c122-106-216-167.belrs3.nsw.optusnet.com.au [122.106.216.167]) by mail13.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id n4EL2dqv009029 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 15 May 2009 07:02:40 +1000 X-Bogosity: Ham, spamicity=0.000000 Received: from server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (localhost.vk2pj.dyndns.org [127.0.0.1]) by server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n4EL2dpD056971; Fri, 15 May 2009 07:02:39 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from peter@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org) Received: (from peter@localhost) by server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) id n4EL2dH9056970; Fri, 15 May 2009 07:02:39 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from peter) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 07:02:39 +1000 From: peterjeremy@optushome.com.au To: Mehmet Erol Sanliturk Message-ID: <20090514210238.GA56938@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org> References: <4A04EA46.20106@freebsd.org> <4A088642.3030402@freebsd.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="SUOF0GtieIMvvwua" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-PGP-Key: http://members.optusnet.com.au/peterjeremy/pubkey.asc User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.19 (2009-01-05) Cc: freebsd-current Subject: Re: Installation of FreeBSD 8.0-Current-2009-amd64-dvd X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 21:02:44 -0000 --SUOF0GtieIMvvwua Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2009-May-12 01:47:49 -0400, Mehmet Erol Sanliturk wrote: >Personally I would be very happy to be able to contribute to development of >FreeBSD as much as possible . Up to now I could not be able to establish a >working system as a network which is suitable for my needs , but I am >working toward this . Your efforts are appreciated, but as others have indicated, you have chosen an approach that requires a steeper than necessary learning curve for yourself. >As an example , I want to mention other operating systems : Debian : When = an >update is available an icon is appearing and saying that an update is >available . When it is accepted the update is applied . At present my >Debian 5.0.0 is up to date in that way . I don't believe that model is appropriate for FreeBSD. Firstly, by default, FreeBSD does not have a GUI (installing X11 is optional) and many FreeBSD installations are servers that don't have either screens or logged in administrators. Secondly, what do you define as an "update"? There are maybe 100 port updates each day and about the same number of updates to -current. Do you really want to get several hundred popups each day? If so, you might as well just subscribe to the relevant commit mailing lists. >When a part is modified and it requires a test , all of the participating >related systems may be notified by the automatic testing system . This is a nice idea but I don't think it's practical. As has been mentioned, the -current snapshots are just whatever is in the tree when the build triggers. It may contain an arbitrary number of changes from the previous snapshot and be in the middle of a set of related commits. How do you determine the change list to present to the user? How do you handle it if the user has skipped a previous update (which means the list of changes from their running system is the union of several snapshot sets)? >The only requirements will be that tests will not crash the complete >installations at to the points that the system will not be even able to bo= ot >any more which it will not be able to send any message back about test >results . Whilst -current is generally OK to use, it is quite possible for it to eat your filesystem if you update at the wrong point. The only safe way to run -current is either to use a throw-away virtual host or to follow the mailing list and understand what has changed and what is being worked on. >As an example : In one of my Linux computer , to reclaim file space =2E.. >making the system completely unbootable , unable to rescue current contents That sounds like there was a serious bug in the dependency information and seems more a reason not to implement your proposal. >hard disks are large per drive or a dedicated hard drive around 160 GB is >around US $ 50 ( US dollars ) which I think many users would use such an >option . And for many other users wouldn't be an option due either to cost or physical space (eg, I can't fit a second HDD into my laptop). >In a multi-boot system , booting the 8.0 Current and applying tests and se= nd >reports back may not be difficult for the participating users ( at least >they are willing to apply such steps ) . I find rebooting annoying - I keep a lot of state in xterms, browsers and editors. Rebooting means losing all that so I avoid rebooting unless I really have to. A session manager can restore my 50 xterms and 4 or 5 emacs but it can't restore all the less(1) sessions with various marks set. >The hardest problem is to have such a testing environment . The present >model is difficult to >participate . It is very flexible , but requires much knowledge . To make = it >a more structured >will reduce required amount of knowledge but will increase possible >participation and back contribution . What impact will reducing the flexibility of FreeBSD development have on the Project? Most FreeBSD developers are volunteers and if you make things too hard for them, they'll just leave. If you believe you can come up with a workable solution, I suggest you come up with a more detailed proposal and discuss it on -arch. >Writing specifications and requirements and then opening it to academic >environments may attract interest . If you know people who want to write specifications, feel free to point them at the FreeBSD project. For things in the various ideas pages, there are contacts who should be involved. --=20 Peter Jeremy --SUOF0GtieIMvvwua Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.11 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAkoMhu4ACgkQ/opHv/APuIdFOQCeJL4JCFq3LK2d+0LCTPAMj53m OfAAmwVhMMAeZ51lNJzBhZzLCOWAgklt =Bffl -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --SUOF0GtieIMvvwua--