From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sat Apr 18 17:18:24 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE85C2CFC62 for ; Sat, 18 Apr 2020 17:18:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu) Received: from kicp.uchicago.edu (kicp.uchicago.edu [128.135.20.70]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 494KRh1VTCz4Z9K for ; Sat, 18 Apr 2020 17:18:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu) Received: from [192.168.43.113] (unknown [172.58.139.171]) (Authenticated sender: galtsev) by kicp.uchicago.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 855664E66F for ; Sat, 18 Apr 2020 12:18:23 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: freebsd should be rewritten based on microkernel architecture To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <3f1496d1f598c84b3871b630f161256e152aca75.camel@tom.com> <681077991.2278153.1587146552233@mail.yahoo.com> <20200417213025.16ba5877.freebsd@edvax.de> <1659102270.119843446.1587168373188.JavaMail.zimbra@shaw.ca> <20200418092801.20d10f5b@archlinux> <4bc4b613-50a7-4890-61e8-5ed5037b07dc@kicp.uchicago.edu> <20200418165853.79dbdde1@archlinux> <20200418182437.037869c8@archlinux> From: Valeri Galtsev Message-ID: <6017bc7a-80e1-3afe-24ba-14502607e06c@kicp.uchicago.edu> Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2020 12:18:20 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.4.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 494KRh1VTCz4Z9K X-Spamd-Bar: +++++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=fail reason="No valid SPF, No valid DKIM" header.from=uchicago.edu (policy=none); spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu has no SPF policy when checking 128.135.20.70) smtp.mailfrom=galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu X-Spamd-Result: default: False [7.20 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; DMARC_POLICY_SOFTFAIL(0.10)[uchicago.edu : No valid SPF, No valid DKIM,none]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[171.139.58.172.khpj7ygk5idzvmvt5x4ziurxhy.zen.dq.spamhaus.net : 127.0.0.10]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_XBL(5.00)[171.139.58.172.khpj7ygk5idzvmvt5x4ziurxhy.zen.dq.spamhaus.net : 127.0.0.4]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(1.00)[0.998,0]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; IP_SCORE(0.11)[ip: (0.30), ipnet: 128.135.0.0/16(0.15), asn: 160(0.12), country: US(-0.05)]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(1.00)[1.000,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[70.20.135.128.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.10.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:160, ipnet:128.135.0.0/16, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; GREYLIST(0.00)[pass,meta]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-Spam: Yes X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2020 17:18:25 -0000 As Ralf did, I gave up too. This whole thread sounded like trolling to me. Could we, please, have this thread stopped for good? Valeri On 4/18/20 12:08 PM, Aryeh Friedman wrote: > On Sat, Apr 18, 2020 at 12:24 PM Ralf Mardorf via freebsd-questions < > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> wrote: > >> On Sat, 18 Apr 2020 11:26:54 -0400, Aryeh Friedman wrote: >>>> On Fri, 17 Apr 2020 20:50:09 -0400, Aryeh Friedman wrote: >>>>> And here goes the *ABSOLUTE* reason why no developer who ever hopes >>>>> to make any money at all from their work should *EVER* use GPL. >>>> >>>> It's utter nonsense! Without doubts MIT, BSD and other licenses are >>>> better for some projects, while for other projects GPL could grant a >>>> bonus. >>> >>> Not according to the FreeBSD foundation who recommends against GPL in >>> almost all cases. >>> >> https://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/bsdl-gpl/article.html >>> (see sections 9 and 10) >> >> They do not use the terms "absolute" and "ever". >> > > Maybe since English is not your native language then some of the subtle > context is lost but to a native speaker they say just that but much subtler > way (but is unmistakable what their preference is) while recognizing for > historical reasons some stuff has to stay GPL. See the -hackers@ and > -current@ lists if you want to see a huge amount of effort to remove as > much GPL code in the base system as possible. > > >> >> Btw. if there are already a lot of GPL licensed libraries and kernel >> abilities available for a project of some domain, that are not >> available by such an amount, if at all by another licensed >> infrastructure, it could become very expensive to create the required >> infrastructure. >> > > That's one reason why the ports collection exists to cleanly divorce the > stuff that is hard to remove GPL from what is critical to the core of the > OS. Also /usr/src/contrib is where all stuff that cannot cleanly be used > under BSD goes to make it clear it is legally separate then the rest of the > base system (legally no different than RH or any other Linux dist does when > they combine many works from different licenses into a packaged OS). > > >> Those who make a living from whatever licensed software probably have >> reasons to chose a particular license. Some probably chose the wrong >> license by mistake, other chose a license that is good for them and >> their customers. >> > > Some of them are forced to pick the wrong license due to the libraries that > are required for their work (this is my #1 objection to GPL). This is the > main reason I am so ardent in calling GPL "evil". > > >> I can't see that you are that successful with your business, as the >> coder of Ardour is with his business. That might be a wrong conclusion, >> let alone that the software license not necessarily is the reason for >> more or less success. However, you are seemingly not programming in all >> domains, but you don't restrain from generalizing. >> > > 1. Do some research before drawing conclusions if you did you would see > over the 30 years of my career I have worked in many different domains of > software development. > > 2. Since almost all my current work is covered by NDA's forced on me by > clients (I would prefer not to have them) there is no way you can judge or > not judge how successful I am > > 3. Are you a developer? If not, you likely don't understand the economics > of software development as well as you think you do > > According to the Wikipedia article on Ardour, it's primary author was hired > by a hardware company to work full time on Ardour. This is consistent > with the claim I have made throughout the entire thread that it is > impossible to work on GPL'ed projects and make a living unless your are > subsidized by some organization whose primary business is not the software > but complements the software. For example hardware companies love > open-source because it makes their hardware more useful to their customers > (they are not software companies). This does not translate to a software > only company, for self evident reasons, nor to a company that requires > one-off custom software for its primary business (such as many medical > applications). > > If you want to pick a better example of a successful open source project > that makes money I would say you should go with firefox (which is > successful, via donations, due to overwhelming critical mass not because > people would buy it if it was commercial) > > >> _______________________________________________ >> freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list >> https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to " >> freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >> > > -- ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Valeri Galtsev Sr System Administrator Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics University of Chicago Phone: 773-702-4247 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++