From nobody Mon Jul 15 23:58:16 2024 X-Original-To: freebsd-stable@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4WNK0B0wVJz5QSqp for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2024 23:58:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cperciva@freebsd.org) Received: from mail.tarsnap.com (mail.tarsnap.com [54.86.246.204]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4WNK096MDrz49MZ for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2024 23:58:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cperciva@freebsd.org) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: (qmail 16735 invoked from network); 15 Jul 2024 23:58:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO framework.daemonology.net) (127.0.0.1) by mail.tarsnap.com with SMTP; 15 Jul 2024 23:58:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 3969 invoked from network); 15 Jul 2024 23:58:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 15 Jul 2024 23:58:16 -0000 Message-ID: <25a443cb-35d3-4d32-bb94-7aa18d4a3813@freebsd.org> Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2024 16:58:16 -0700 List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-stable List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: Change to FreeBSD release scheduling etc. To: Warner Losh Cc: Tomoaki AOKI , Peter , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, Baptiste Daroussin References: <3598c6db-6d8a-4efa-b5fc-1fc697608860@freebsd.org> <20240716063356.f0993ae6f7648ae19c1ae33f@dec.sakura.ne.jp> <0fb67778-d279-420b-b482-5ce36e08a1be@freebsd.org> <22612d5f-3960-4390-a484-3bd307820126@freebsd.org> Content-Language: en-US From: Colin Percival Autocrypt: addr=cperciva@freebsd.org; keydata= xsFNBGWMSrYBEACdWRqDn3B3SKO7IG0/fGHYtfs26f3Q5QeAcasy1fQLniwGQWn5rlILhbCD K/jdNoDm5Zxq20eqyffoDNObCjnHgg4tGANdi+RmDy+7CDpE789H8dss9y7Pt5DlGGAXQQnt hxush3EYS/Ctprd9UUL/lzOOLOU1aNtzB84tNrJBtcJmL7OYHfyTSNFxvedqJrrasejIQOLI t/DQ89BPzz+vsKHz7FJPXh3fsVkzLA00DJYcfkgxyABfJNA7U6yMwd4DVSdx/SsvfIDMVXnu UXCXswo106WPZbYGlZPpq0wW6iibtTerJix+8AeuwXvl9O1p8yESK4ErkIxCnmghTSz+pdzj z/6xBRkdDM9VdZ0r+CzsaNXMpDOzFuKyjaiYBdgCLljbDnXIHFcqXenrZ7Xwkm09g/M4uVSh pIUG2RYa6tsHSQoGCp3f2RZv1znfViKQFbbL83QjtPA20AhseZSYbHp1FPhXyy9J0wkGL16L e99g6gdGeIRE82BZjBjKGDkoyDPq+oDRSFl8NtzmIKy+cfz00nViqcTF4bREXEawFGhlpO0X O9q8mijI9iFB6zaPBiSdJGBL5ML5qLTNCl8Zlf4m1TBvmRTqF/lzMHVXHidDoUhpSh/y3AFZ 1KrYc27ztJQywDJPJPWPbtY8YhFLFs377gfP8WldsZjzp8nvoQARAQABzSVDb2xpbiBQZXJj aXZhbCA8Y3BlcmNpdmFARnJlZUJTRC5vcmc+wsGRBBMBCAA7FiEEglY7hNBiDtwN+4ZBOJfy 4i5lrT8FAmWMSrYCGwMICwkNCAwHCwMFFQoJCAsFFgMCAQACHgUCF4AACgkQOJfy4i5lrT++ ig/9GZKdN2fHSyrANKZX38ivd7IX2wAYouqH9DrQM94W8IciaDLmarN4Pl9mY+aucMwQUSyp uNtKOJwKqhVVaalF9Zw0sRMH4CJuvT7vKCtZ3q1Okb7soRvFte4d+vXhvPxCvBFDA5JzU7Lg DR5eqqcvF1dN1OuCq16pl0zCOSH/Jr5ToE3LM3Av1KBGcZD7ZSzHRWsFjV5AOUJKySuA3GwJ e/jASQcQ0YfCnru8ntLmYg/2SKvZFlfthZiCBnAppMt4n4BUAw3TDvf10HIDtdneejawcbLS gofLCvGqumwbZYAMKWrFzT4+7KQvr0pOw8QD7EbxnB4f9hQ7UiVF8qWsyKU3iv6b5JLhbS59 ooKRccyOvdMLcVJ0ZdpqoxrNv061ZUqLL5RiWjBlc1qjBnDxeg5oyM0rT8WLftdgvyH6RQt0 KWngumBAT5AT2DUYL8Uz1490cqfO9K4yEGZAJB9XRVX1g2IWTOjae+0g9ZII+h91UngFz+Rz aKDeseKBbCGDOFXx1TqKiHl2g255ZnUxKYTlucFtguv4gDGBgEk4G9JaEWBw1IWblcKhxH7L 2vWsUhvwghjIxHdO/RkeIeHvSp4YZxCJ7a3TaJLYAlwYopfTKVzNhcDY5h5syEuoHjyJCxXK SyoJYAVu8Yl2KUhvOtOmL1VZ6xyHnpdMRWKJZ5jOwU0EZYxKtgEQANYfgbtUMVnhjxDHhWLp g5kLHK3YW0TfJKzpXqDB7NiqxHofn4OcbZnVC3MKggcbs9o1/UtsjnlsG8550PfiYkDXvPiO RJwgbGs6MGIDK797C6cnBLQ8xwBa9SL4cl5iQFnhWmt6vwnJ+an/cm5JpYves3wL7jV09qU9 57hkHXEUcl38r4FssZzVcLKPUVTa3Un+QGRTGDGe/f4ctjMaqv0ZCM+l2ixPhf/vqESrfSLv V/+T3dmtUfXjazO3SABvsHwxgGuTTYOlKoPCaebr+BRdqm0xeIShoIlhvTI8y4clchqx/Uxg UG5X2kvU13k3DS3Q8uLE4Et9x1CcZT6WGgBZSR6R0WfD0SDnzufNnRWJ0dEPA2MtJHE7+85R Vi9j/IgZV+y5Ur+bnPkjDG1s2SVciX5v9HQ0oilcBhvx0j5lGE9hhurD9F+fCvkr4KdbCknE 6Y8ce8pCNBUoB/DqibJivOzTk9K9MGB5x0De5TerIrFiaw3/mQC9nGeO9dtE7wvDJetWeoTq 4BEaCzpufNqbkpOaTQILr4V6Gp7M6v97g83TVAwZntz/q8ptwuKQPZ2JaSFLZn7oWUpYXA5s +SIODFHLn6iMoYpBQskHQjnj4lEPJadl4qj+ZKA89iDAKsniyoFXsbJe2CPbMS1yzBxKZq6K D/jpt7BOnuHr/JrXABEBAAHCwXYEGAEIACAWIQSCVjuE0GIO3A37hkE4l/LiLmWtPwUCZYxK tgIbDAAKCRA4l/LiLmWtP3jmEACQrh9gWe8F1Tkw3m6VoHKwLc5he4tX3WpQa//soPO6iGG3 S3WPruQ46NrAaAojoOcKI9UONDO5rxG0ZTX53S+lu2EO47jbcLwOCjaEpjKpDRt9ZXBQE8Xl mtBE9Bp3W9gpjB1nE3KNM1mJYgsK0QdRpwwfh4pVgGpOj8j23I6MCK+v99zEBnpgCn2GX8W/ kctRXHqWwndHysOJtRP/zrl7dDaABF1f9efUl0LL3TD3GJ9VDz+DNOin/uK2a1hiJo8QzTRk PpfUQ2ebzDsrd1i/pOWkMSkdH+rEu4AGrXWtaBwrMyrGkL6Icb6yO+P9/z0W2wlgBf3P1YRt JPgQt/Dj3yvA/UnaV/QmuVQPjl13o24UnJGsZM8XGnNdfWBKkC1Q6VXC4QT+dyBHYH9MuE9d 6oGl8pFM1+cTfEfbM62/rRoPkF1yHMsI/903VxEvuUIKfhEZAVLFyHldooNxuchntHQP9y8J 8Ou9bWYQP7MnEn+kwSwrZkjurfPkan+xQvp6dDYnj3V0GwA5pprBMaB928VIDVOv+1PNQI3t Cvk5VPv/skq+TJRMHW7bFSt8PRa91cUf1FOLIz9APDiJOzXkwxUEHGV3zPSaUhs1JYjyBeGT wDAvtLUdjOnRhEUOwlnIrztmvyciutjJoVzKEEjj5WXnHk9L9kQ1bpAjkjTONw== In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:14618, ipnet:54.86.0.0/16, country:US] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4WNK096MDrz49MZ On 7/15/24 15:59, Warner Losh wrote: > On Mon, Jul 15, 2024 at 4:20 PM Colin Percival > wrote: > > On 7/15/24 15:05, Warner Losh wrote: > > Ideally, we'd keep the same KBI per major release, but that ideal has > fallen > > short. > > Having a stable KBI only solves half of the problem.  With DRM especially it's > useful for people running the latest minor release to use kmods which make use > of functionality which was added in the latest release before the previous > release is EoLed. > > Functionality added where? I'm not following the point you're making here... > But since > KBI stability isn't going to happen (at least given our past track record and > a lack of > tools to enforce it), it may be just an academic exercise. New functions in LinuxKPI is the case I was thinking of. It doesn't prevent kernel modules compiled for earlier releases working with the newer release, but because we build kernel modules on a per-stable-branch basis we have to wait until the previous release EoLs. -- Colin Percival FreeBSD Release Engineering Lead & EC2 platform maintainer Founder, Tarsnap | www.tarsnap.com | Online backups for the truly paranoid