From nobody Wed Jun 12 20:44:42 2024 X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4VzyGH2mRFz5NQXc for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2024 20:44:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: from mail-vs1-xe2b.google.com (mail-vs1-xe2b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::e2b]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4VzyGH0h36z4BNn for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2024 20:44:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: by mail-vs1-xe2b.google.com with SMTP id ada2fe7eead31-48d7a81a594so118795137.2 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2024 13:44:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1718225093; x=1718829893; darn=freebsd.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=jFHMwFIKbY88CQ8SHvsIzUVgRrlD0OQAsKrC0FCJd9s=; b=UucAJT71F5IEWOUruDi1qBZqrUaMuI5Hdh2NFdZm2qYyicU4AN4RELhA0M5mUCAnkx gIFAYG6gSqG0BiZeQRG/RDLLnqoDASI3GwsVrMBPfA1WbmUzYUJq3ZtFo0XiQ2zmJUGD Ss1F1jvDtT9nPPvuBa4+B3QyfS1aavIJ5nhC+jYRnIT7QXyRu7SBqemMoAf5QSan+J/Y flPBvEWYj6RAg7ebhg315sgZXSYiskxroFgY0vxUGXYyapfhqCiTAacvrnDeIDysZfW/ 2wbZb8n7cjDs6GQ0H62RFmtGbqRen33+wiaGS0VoGEOrSeTC61c3SHrl8iVcCkjK3fTb kl/g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1718225093; x=1718829893; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=jFHMwFIKbY88CQ8SHvsIzUVgRrlD0OQAsKrC0FCJd9s=; b=W0hZO3tmulwvRFq9mFLpJGVGS40+F3E2H3qtGkwAHo0HVPMzo9QR4RzULm21DOsFMT 6RiUXDMi8gSWsxi/0+9J8EOdJvy0S0HbYNF8bUAygIYLZTWEKjX2trDAzbdJ7CQYq4uX 7T13nLHLzwKj5HOqpwgUemnnwH99c/QhHqhpGpl+lZP7Fo6R2ZZJnyuTpXlAQ33Pr9fi fTeUV9kBr9e9cy+EQ0vCuX4DzYQrJr2kFnu5gsP/EHvNTwe8k5JC0NgqAsImGvFpphcs eZvlpscEz6RUKnGRxE5u8R2aTrLlw3QYXCvk/CGd27/+/SNykA3GDnIt63xZ9Sztrvpe nugQ== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCWS8mt72ysONlQpxhMdp8Hwk6LRf6Hm6osK3zfRPcB5EzX7ZNx7dMbsurxep0HkU2UrVM3iS55OMyjM1y2NNgIrpZHpylKIxpcxlgU= X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzMxde8YR9xNgpfYGdpsRHGu2w0LXAyK3mC7crZcnTKs2bwdDZf fbNmgvUdrXxngWt8e+VgSP5y27T14/uNFiMN8x7d/bnOPz0wPxbj3mShzy/LcRhWZNwOMQagRBz xlaEtVAAjq6ss2cYPbPxVE52sov10sw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEuwlHffY4mK1mJQ446N4QRBNqaIjYq1jmxRocEqKUGbvgxWl85jszELmF1uOXQuxKIvswWMQyvQ11B6e/UVOU= X-Received: by 2002:a67:bb0e:0:b0:48c:514d:2d98 with SMTP id ada2fe7eead31-48d91de623emr3417322137.18.1718225093395; Wed, 12 Jun 2024 13:44:53 -0700 (PDT) List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <0.2.0-final-1718212027.814-0x75c1f0@qmda.emu.st> <26eaa45fec5b95b6a00948d45aaea927@bsdforge.com> In-Reply-To: <26eaa45fec5b95b6a00948d45aaea927@bsdforge.com> From: Aryeh Friedman Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2024 16:44:42 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Removing "CMOS clock set to UTC" question To: Chris Cc: Mark Delany , FreeBSD Hackers Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4VzyGH0h36z4BNn On Wed, Jun 12, 2024 at 3:08=E2=80=AFPM Chris wrot= e: > > On 2024-06-12 10:07, Mark Delany wrote: > > On 12Jun24, Ed Maste apparently wrote: > >> Our installer asks (via tzsetup): > >> > >> > Is this machine's CMOS clock set to UTC? If it is set to local time= , > >> > or you don't know, please choose NO here! > >> > >> I've heard many reports of new users being confused by this question > > > > And experienced users too! > > > > I've been installing FBSD and various other OSes for decades and whenev= er I > > see that > > question invariable: > > > > a) I have no clue as to what the machine's CMOS clock is set to in th= e > > first instance > > > > b) I do not want the hassle of stopping the install to gain access to= some > > obscure BIOS > > screen that might or might not give me the answer. > > > > c) I have no clue as to the implications of answering this question o= ne > > way or the > > other. > > > > d) I don't know whether it's a good idea or not to change the CMOS cl= ock > > to UTC if it's > > not the case. Is it? > > > > e) I don't think I've ever seen a similar question asked by any other= OS > > install. > > > > At the very least the message should indicate what happens if you get t= he > > answer > > wrong. Does the system fail to install, does the clock run backwards, w= ill > > my dog stop > > barking? What? > > "If you are unsure, or don't know the answer here. Select NO" > Seems intuitive enough. > IOW no harm done here, if you choose NO (selects localtime). :) > Personally, I don't have a strong BIAS here, except that it's always been > this > way, and I don't have to remember to set it post installation. So it seem= s > "convenient". In a dual (or more) boot config it is *NOT* more convenient because some OS's like Window$ just assume that it is set to local time and if you set it to UTC on FreeBSD you will need to always sync on reboot (to different OS) or be 5 hrs off (EDT/NYC).... in the 3 years of having my machine being dual boot and even after reinstalling FreeBSD (my primary OS) on a brand new drive (old one died) I still have this issue... lucky FreeBSD has ntpdate at boot but Window$ doesn't.... from what I have seen Linux also does this (or at least when I run the Linux partition under bhyve it does) --=20 Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org