From nobody Mon May 25 09:28:46 2026 X-Original-To: freebsd-stable@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4gP9Yb2218z6f25l for ; Mon, 25 May 2026 09:28:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from qqyr7xx9k@shirt.ocn.ne.jp) Received: from ocn-ckd-mts-207c35.ocn.ad.jp (ocn-ckd-mts-207c35.ocn.ad.jp [210.163.237.100]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4gP9YZ5BNRz434Z for ; Mon, 25 May 2026 09:28:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from qqyr7xx9k@shirt.ocn.ne.jp) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from ocn-spm-mts-203c1.ocn.ad.jp (ocn-spm-mts-203c1.ocn.ad.jp [210.145.246.203]) by ocn-ckd-mts-207c35.ocn.ad.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8971D1C0009F4; Mon, 25 May 2026 18:28:46 +0900 (JST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=shirt.ocn.ne.jp; s=20240118; t=1779701326; bh=2nKyrfx4L/1M5cZPtlVYjJf4AMCEWLAFaioxaHjNDv8=; h=Date:Subject:To:References:From:In-Reply-To:From; b=OAiQdgPYJGa8z3b/xixjgeCPuT0C61y3HD/MitJOo95O33HFZivG01de8fR8gs7s3 ieQdYthvQjqJ/3jraQN/z55veFAXa3WRvQPHvJY1GaiaGAl/+Ls7hdeSUBhxZW7oT1 x6EmrxD/+Nm67WqOHdd3HAIP4W+kasQLimOC1O4snJwDncKG97ffgzwJmAQ0MNNnzJ zycv3kb/PFCzfYDcxBn8d/mPThf82jaT/sdBfjYgrEIz5wBM9zL4mBNOf6DgsvJDmY n8uyFRzVW3qoessTCpW1ueySKgi4uhgOvT2WPF2NG2GtUU5ZNk1Pjkyz5LGRR2NQqs 87TKsTdP7pJBA== Received: from ocn-vc-mts-209c1.ocn.ad.jp ([210.145.250.204]) by ocn-spm-mts-203c1 with ngmta id b5945927-18b2c4ed5d3c20cc; Mon, 25 May 2026 18:28:46 +0900 Received: from ocn-sdpx-mts-204c1.ocn.ad.jp ([210.145.249.141]) by ocn-vc-mts-209c1 with ngmta id d1bed3ce-18b2c4ed56eba54f; Mon, 25 May 2026 18:28:46 +0900 Received: from [192.168.1.11] (p1634144-ipxg05401yosida.nagano.ocn.ne.jp [153.185.242.144]) by ocn-sdpx-mts-204c1.ocn.ad.jp (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Mon, 25 May 2026 18:28:46 +0900 (JST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------YlEvqPHYXI0d4HUJiApjoAvl" Message-ID: Date: Mon, 25 May 2026 18:28:46 +0900 List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-stable List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Owner: Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: Proposal: Improve BE naming convention in freebsd-update install To: vermaden , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org References: <70da0c5b-c865-44e9-8c19-abb1cd779efe@shirt.ocn.ne.jp> <7a0f1e46-b18d-455d-9b1c-f93131dae0bb@interia.pl> Content-Language: en-US From: Takashi Shimizu In-Reply-To: <7a0f1e46-b18d-455d-9b1c-f93131dae0bb@interia.pl> X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:4713, ipnet:210.160.0.0/14, country:JP] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4gP9YZ5BNRz434Z X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------YlEvqPHYXI0d4HUJiApjoAvl Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 5/25/26 16:51, vermaden wrote: > > To understand 'default' name choose you will have to move back in time > to 2012 when I implemented *beadm(8)* for FreeBSD: > > - https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/howto-freebsd-zfs-madness.31662/ > > The *pool/ROOT/default *was back then (and probably is still now) used > by default on Solaris/Illumos - so I just recreated that - along with > *beadm(8) *tool - its parameters and messages. > > Of course it can be changed - right now I use something like that > personally: > > f25 vermaden ~ %*beadm list* > BE            Active Mountpoint  Space Created > 14.4          NR     /           29.3G 2026-03-01 11:03 > 14.4.safe.OLD -      -            7.3G 2026-05-08 01:19 > 14.4.safe     -      -            1.6G 2026-05-18 20:48 > 15.0          -      -           12.7G 2026-05-21 12:24 Thank you for the valuable responses. To clarify my proposal: I was not suggesting a naming convention for users to follow manually. The intent was that freebsd-update itself automatically renames the current BE to "HEAD" after each install. This guarantees that "HEAD" always refers to the latest state managed by freebsd-update, without any user intervention. I should be transparent that I was personally misled by the automatically generated BE names and lost considerable time as a result. The BE name said "p8" but the system was actually running "p9". The snapshot with the newer timestamp turned out to be the older state. I suspect other users have fallen into the same trap. I actively promote FreeBSD to Japanese users through social media, and one of my key messages is that FreeBSD with ZFS and Boot Environments allows safe and confident system updates. This proposal comes from a wish to make that experience better for users who are new to FreeBSD. If it does not conflict with established conventions, I would be grateful if this could be reconsidered. And even if the current behavior remains unchanged, I am thankful that the topic was worth discussing. Thank you for the links as well. I will read them carefully. Takashi --------------YlEvqPHYXI0d4HUJiApjoAvl Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
On 5/25/26 16:51, vermaden wrote:

To understand 'default' name choose you will have to move back in time to 2012 when I implemented beadm(8) for FreeBSD:

- https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/howto-freebsd-zfs-madness.31662/

The pool/ROOT/default was back then (and probably is still now) used by default on Solaris/Illumos - so I just recreated that - along with beadm(8) tool - its parameters and messages.

Of course it can be changed - right now I use something like that personally:

f25 vermaden ~ % beadm list
BE            Active Mountpoint  Space Created
14.4          NR     /           29.3G 2026-03-01 11:03
14.4.safe.OLD -      -            7.3G 2026-05-08 01:19
14.4.safe     -      -            1.6G 2026-05-18 20:48
15.0          -      -           12.7G 2026-05-21 12:24

Thank you for the valuable responses.

To clarify my proposal: I was not suggesting a naming convention for users to follow manually. The intent was that freebsd-update itself automatically renames the current BE to "HEAD" after each install. This guarantees that "HEAD" always refers to the latest state managed by freebsd-update, without any user intervention.

I should be transparent that I was personally misled by the automatically generated BE names and lost considerable time as a result. The BE name said "p8" but the system was actually running "p9". The snapshot with the newer timestamp turned out to be the older state. I suspect other users have fallen into the same trap.

I actively promote FreeBSD to Japanese users through social media, and one of my key messages is that FreeBSD with ZFS and Boot Environments allows safe and confident system updates. This proposal comes from a wish to make that experience better for users who are new to FreeBSD.

If it does not conflict with established conventions, I would be grateful if this could be reconsidered. And even if the current behavior remains unchanged, I am thankful that the topic was worth discussing.

Thank you for the links as well. I will read them carefully.

Takashi

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