From owner-svn-src-all@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 21 05:30:12 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: svn-src-all@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1452D1065673; Wed, 21 Dec 2011 05:30:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yanegomi@gmail.com) Received: from mail-tul01m020-f182.google.com (mail-tul01m020-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 998458FC08; Wed, 21 Dec 2011 05:30:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obbwd18 with SMTP id wd18so4444199obb.13 for ; Tue, 20 Dec 2011 21:30:11 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=tNvza69hA67WHLua0Q/fseKlRW6iSN3jfLD13Aw16aE=; b=uPD8oJfljFb8x+/i8mZYy1uLO5COpmNFw2vERHkjx6Smv9JQzrjYoscTQaugwQfUdV Uyw+3BI+/R2vVQ2XG+asj3ha124ySS/ed2eA9daAAMmqa7W3m8Lgux6/95MEyOyubeyY qviit/Ah9wuMpI0nE90gCDhCdBIptkKZ7lJ9s= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.17.102 with SMTP id n6mr4390778obd.56.1324445411130; Tue, 20 Dec 2011 21:30:11 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.182.62.227 with HTTP; Tue, 20 Dec 2011 21:30:10 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20111221045537.GA99900@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> References: <201111291946.pATJkHMs064094@svn.freebsd.org> <20111220171740.X1005@besplex.bde.org> <8CCE4DDE-B203-42FF-A2FA-9106403DE077@FreeBSD.org> <201112200908.57306.jhb@freebsd.org> <4EF13F23.9060601@FreeBSD.org> <4EF14833.1090601@FreeBSD.org> <20111221045537.GA99900@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 21:30:10 -0800 Message-ID: From: Garrett Cooper To: Steve Kargl Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: svn-src-head@freebsd.org, svn-src-all@freebsd.org, Doug Barton , src-committers@freebsd.org, Ben Kaduk Subject: Re: svn commit: r228143 - in head: . share/mk tools/build/options X-BeenThere: svn-src-all@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "SVN commit messages for the entire src tree \(except for " user" and " projects" \)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2011 05:30:12 -0000 On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 8:55 PM, Steve Kargl wrote: > On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 06:45:07PM -0800, Doug Barton wrote: >> On 12/20/2011 18:29, Ben Kaduk wrote: >> > 2011/12/20 Doug Barton : >> >> On 12/20/2011 06:08, John Baldwin wrote: >> >>> The defaults for src.conf should be for the common case >> >> >> >> Agreed. The problem we seem to be missing here is that developers are >> >> not even statistically significant in measuring "the common case." >> > >> > "The common case" of what, though? =A0"People using src.conf", or >> > "people rebuilding world", or just "people using FreeBSD"? >> >> The latter of course. The overwhelming majority of FreeBSD users will >> never use profiled libs, and in fact don't even know what they are. It's >> just useless space being taken up on every install. The defaults should >> be sensible for our users. > > OK, Doug, we get it! You don't like profiled libraries. > You don't use them, and by extension the 'common user' > does not use them. The point that I was trying to drive home (that I think Doug is as well= ) is: - How many FreeBSD users are developers/performance/test engineers who care about this stuff being compiled into the base system? - How many developers use gprof / profiled libraries? - How many developers reroll their world by turning on WITH_PROFILE ? - How often do you use gprof to profile binaries? Smart defaults and better tuning are what we ultimately should be striving for, because again, WITH_PROFILE is a developer and not a end-user / administrator convenience. Those are the individuals we should be tailoring FreeBSD for -- not developers. Thanks, -Garrett