From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Tue Jun 20 20:25:54 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C453ADA1795 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2017 20:25:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@grem.de) Received: from mail.grem.de (outcast.grem.de [213.239.217.27]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 3BAC97276B for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2017 20:25:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@grem.de) Received: (qmail 82275 invoked by uid 89); 20 Jun 2017 20:25:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?100.87.140.59?) (mg@grem.de@109.43.1.91) by mail.grem.de with ESMTPA; 20 Jun 2017 20:25:52 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: Re: rtools were deemed almost unused 15 years ago... From: Michael Gmelin X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (14F89) In-Reply-To: <20170620201635.GC18123@zxy.spb.ru> Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2017 22:25:51 +0200 Cc: Emmanuel Vadot , Joel Dahl , Jeremie Le Hen , Baptiste Daroussin , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20170620111136.fz5ovfa4imm3p4hj@ivaldir.net> <20170620155954.150dedc5@bsd64.grem.de> <20170620171744.GA72667@ymer.vnode.se> <20170620202217.8ddf0bae0d3dbe7063549006@bidouilliste.com> <20170620201635.GC18123@zxy.spb.ru> To: Slawa Olhovchenkov X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2017 20:25:54 -0000 > On 20. Jun 2017, at 22:16, Slawa Olhovchenkov wrote: >=20 >> On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 08:22:17PM +0200, Emmanuel Vadot wrote: >>=20 >> On Tue, 20 Jun 2017 19:17:44 +0200 >> Joel Dahl wrote: >>=20 >>>> On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 03:59:54PM +0200, Michael Gmelin wrote: >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> On Tue, 20 Jun 2017 13:11:37 +0200 >>>> Baptiste Daroussin wrote: >>>>=20 >>>>>> On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 12:25:46PM +0200, Jeremie Le Hen wrote: >>>>>> Hey folks, >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> I remember when I was still barely out of my teenagehood, people >>>>>> were mostly using ssh/scp while rtools (rsh, rlogin, ... for the >>>>>> youngsters) were left in place as a courtesy for legacy production >>>>>> systems still relying it on them. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Fast forward to 2017 (so yes, 15 years later), stack-clash [1] >>>>>> sorely reminds us that suid binaries are an attack surface. I don't >>>>>> even need to mention that it's a healthy engineering practice to >>>>>> remove unused code, both from a maintenance and security >>>>>> perspective. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Therefore, I hereby propose to remove rtools from the base system. >>>>>> I acknowledge this will likely cause troubles for a handful of >>>>>> people who are still relying on it for good or bad reasons. But the >>>>>> flipside is that the attack surface of millions of FreeBSD >>>>>> installed out there will be reduced. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> The proposed roadmap is: >>>>>> - disable from the build on head and let it soak for one month >>>>>> - remove rtools from the base. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> What do you guys think? Any preferred color for the bikeshed? :) >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> [1] https://www.qualys.com/2017/06/19/stack-clash/stack-clash.txt =20= >>>>>=20 >>>>> Yeah! >>>>>=20 >>>>> Is telnetd part of your list? >>>>=20 >>>> As long as the telnet(1) client stays in I'm all for it. >>>=20 >>> +1. Please keep the telnet client. It's something I expect be part of th= e base >>> system utilities. I use it all the time. >>>=20 >>> --=20 >>> Joel >>=20 >> Time to learn nc(1), I'm still fighting to use nc(1) insteal of telnet >> (1) because of musle memory but removing it will help me make the >> switch. >>=20 >> I honestly don't see any valid reason to keep telnet in the tree. >=20 > Don't talk what we need to learn, please. >=20 > PS: nc don't emulate telnet protocol. I use nc every day (more frequently than telnet for sure), but it serves a d= ifferent purpose than telnet. I need both. -m