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Date:      Tue, 20 Jun 2017 22:25:51 +0200
From:      Michael Gmelin <freebsd@grem.de>
To:        Slawa Olhovchenkov <slw@zxy.spb.ru>
Cc:        Emmanuel Vadot <manu@bidouilliste.com>, Joel Dahl <joel@vnode.se>, Jeremie Le Hen <jlh@freebsd.org>, Baptiste Daroussin <bapt@FreeBSD.org>, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: rtools were deemed almost unused 15 years ago...
Message-ID:  <E7AC8092-9934-488A-9DFB-B8599138A8D7@grem.de>
In-Reply-To: <20170620201635.GC18123@zxy.spb.ru>
References:  <CAGSa5y3kVajpSSJUT9Vt0-dTwtaXMwNWvv_ELH14z68osM0UYA@mail.gmail.com> <20170620111136.fz5ovfa4imm3p4hj@ivaldir.net> <20170620155954.150dedc5@bsd64.grem.de> <20170620171744.GA72667@ymer.vnode.se> <20170620202217.8ddf0bae0d3dbe7063549006@bidouilliste.com> <20170620201635.GC18123@zxy.spb.ru>

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> On 20. Jun 2017, at 22:16, Slawa Olhovchenkov <slw@zxy.spb.ru> wrote:
>=20
>> On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 08:22:17PM +0200, Emmanuel Vadot wrote:
>>=20
>> On Tue, 20 Jun 2017 19:17:44 +0200
>> Joel Dahl <joel@vnode.se> wrote:
>>=20
>>>> On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 03:59:54PM +0200, Michael Gmelin wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> On Tue, 20 Jun 2017 13:11:37 +0200
>>>> Baptiste Daroussin <bapt@FreeBSD.org> wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 12:25:46PM +0200, Jeremie Le Hen wrote:
>>>>>> Hey folks,
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> I remember when I was still barely out of my teenagehood, people
>>>>>> were mostly using ssh/scp while rtools (rsh, rlogin, ... for the
>>>>>> youngsters) were left in place as a courtesy for legacy production
>>>>>> systems still relying it on them.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Fast forward to 2017 (so yes, 15 years later), stack-clash [1]
>>>>>> sorely reminds us that suid binaries are an attack surface. I don't
>>>>>> even need to mention that it's a healthy engineering practice to
>>>>>> remove unused code, both from a maintenance and security
>>>>>> perspective.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Therefore, I hereby propose to remove rtools from the base system.
>>>>>> I acknowledge this will likely cause troubles for a handful of
>>>>>> people who are still relying on it for good or bad reasons. But the
>>>>>> flipside is that the attack surface of millions of FreeBSD
>>>>>> installed out there will be reduced.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> The proposed roadmap is:
>>>>>> - disable from the build on head and let it soak for one month
>>>>>> - remove rtools from the base.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> What do you guys think?  Any preferred color for the bikeshed? :)
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> [1] https://www.qualys.com/2017/06/19/stack-clash/stack-clash.txt =20=

>>>>>=20
>>>>> Yeah!
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Is telnetd part of your list?
>>>>=20
>>>> As long as the telnet(1) client stays in I'm all for it.
>>>=20
>>> +1. Please keep the telnet client. It's something I expect be part of th=
e base
>>> system utilities. I use it all the time.
>>>=20
>>> --=20
>>> Joel
>>=20
>> Time to learn nc(1), I'm still fighting to use nc(1) insteal of telnet
>> (1) because of musle memory but removing it will help me make the
>> switch.
>>=20
>> I honestly don't see any valid reason to keep telnet in the tree.
>=20
> Don't talk what we need to learn, please.
>=20
> PS: nc don't emulate telnet protocol.

I use nc every day (more frequently than telnet for sure), but it serves a d=
ifferent purpose than telnet. I need both.

-m





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