From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Tue Jan 12 15:59:14 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21AF5A6C2F6 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 2016 15:59:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jkh@ixsystems.com) Received: from barracuda.ixsystems.com (mail.ixsystems.com [69.198.165.135]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.ixsystems.com", Issuer "Go Daddy Secure Certificate Authority - G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 06AFA1564 for ; Tue, 12 Jan 2016 15:59:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jkh@ixsystems.com) X-ASG-Debug-ID: 1452614352-08ca042abc527a10001-P5m3U7 Received: from mail.iXsystems.com ([10.2.55.1]) by barracuda.ixsystems.com with ESMTP id 1eRR5TIoVChcZrrA (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 12 Jan 2016 07:59:13 -0800 (PST) X-Barracuda-Envelope-From: jkh@ixsystems.com X-Barracuda-RBL-Trusted-Forwarder: 10.2.55.1 X-ASG-Whitelist: Client Received: from [10.8.0.14] (unknown [10.8.0.14]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.iXsystems.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id AAA31A37F9; Tue, 12 Jan 2016 07:59:12 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=ixsystems.com; s=newknight0; t=1452614352; bh=aIkb6kYwmE/QX9Nq2DDHPwzcl3FJi/x3/UgzEhr1Zjc=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To; b=QeG+uit0NnnRyVILUuGk9gGphPRU8eNYAvIx56pez9O5rM4C2kiuZVZVTibzMk7gU RQvniFeNZZKIqcuB3yF+eV4KfPM8WlLFcA7H+T+eZALH78N53UvupUjxCQ9/kEqnze K1mhAnHSnpFLFAirXUKUaWr5og96GEJPcmhz5ADs= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.2 \(3112\)) Subject: Re: relaunchd: a portable clone of launchd From: Hubbard Jordan X-ASG-Orig-Subj: Re: relaunchd: a portable clone of launchd In-Reply-To: <20160112125948.GH3625@kib.kiev.ua> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2016 07:59:11 -0800 Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <1D6BDF3C-28E7-40C4-A8A2-3A914A3CC76B@ixsystems.com> References: <5687D3A9.5050400@NTLWorld.com> <817860B6-5D67-41A3-ADD7-9757C7E67C35@gmail.com> <07D83705-D89F-4125-B57B-920EDEBC8A85@rdsor.ro> <70975696-3E07-48B9-BFD1-3C2F51E715BB@icloud.com> <76E6AF2A-917B-41EB-883A-C27AB2BB9F71@ixsystems.com> <20160112125948.GH3625@kib.kiev.ua> To: Konstantin Belousov X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3112) X-Barracuda-Connect: UNKNOWN[10.2.55.1] X-Barracuda-Start-Time: 1452614353 X-Barracuda-Encrypted: DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA X-Barracuda-URL: https://10.2.0.41:443/cgi-mod/mark.cgi X-Virus-Scanned: by bsmtpd at ixsystems.com X-Barracuda-BRTS-Status: 1 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2016 15:59:14 -0000 > On Jan 12, 2016, at 4:59 AM, Konstantin Belousov = wrote: >=20 > I highly recommend to Google for "Mach IPC sucks" if reader is really = interested. And here we return to the usual trap=E2=80=A6 =E2=80=9CMach IPC sucks!=E2=80=9D =E2=80=9COK. What do you propose that will address all of the same = concerns?=E2=80=9D =E2=80=9Cdbus!=E2=80=9D =E2=80=9C*Sigh*. You haven=E2=80=99t even looked at the two = technologies in any depth, have you? Go read the dbus wikipedia page, = at least! Unix domain sockets underneath, no kernel<->userland = communication path, no trusted IPC mechanism, no support for large = messages=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D =E2=80=9COK, so something new!! We should totally create an IPC for the = New Millennium!=E2=80=9D =E2=80=9CThat would be you then? Where=E2=80=99s your white paper? = Where=E2=80=99s your reference implementation?=E2=80=9D Sorry. Been there, had this debate, and while it=E2=80=99s always = extremely easy to fling poop at an existing mechanism, it turns out = it=E2=80=99s so much harder to actually *create an alternative* that = this kind of discussion only serves to throw cold water on evolution = (=E2=80=9Cthe perfect being the enemy of the good enough=E2=80=9D) and = the end-result is that evolution does not occur. I also already covered how it=E2=80=99s very easy to layer something = like XPC *on top* of Mach IPC such that you, the programmer, need never = be exposed to the Mach IPC APIs (but still get to leverage the internal = capabilities I=E2=80=99ve already covered). Sorry, Konstantin, but yours is a non-argument. - Jordan