From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 17 20:12:40 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FA1216A41F for ; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 20:12:40 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from brucem@mail.cruzio.com) Received: from cruzio.com (dsl3-63-249-85-132.cruzio.com [63.249.85.132]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53C0043D48 for ; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 20:12:40 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from brucem@mail.cruzio.com) Received: from mail.cruzio.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cruzio.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j9HKEZIX000535; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 13:14:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brucem@mail.cruzio.com) Received: (from brucem@localhost) by mail.cruzio.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id j9HKEZFH000534; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 13:14:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brucem) Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 13:14:35 -0700 (PDT) From: "Bruce R. Montague" Message-Id: <200510172014.j9HKEZFH000534@mail.cruzio.com> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Cc: kline@tao.thought.org Subject: Re: nvi for serious hacking X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 20:12:40 -0000 Hi, (wondering off on a tangent), re: > I was using screen oriented editors over a > 1200 baud dialup line in 1977 on a PDP-11 running RSTS/E on a Behive... Around this time I think full-screen editors from DEC that took advantage of the VT-52 (and later VT-100) included KED, EDT, and maybe SOS? EDT and KED took good advantage of the alternate keypad, basically the same keypad as on PC keyboards today. Weren't there full-screen editors on PDP-8's before this? Doug Engelbart's NLS demo in 1968 may not qualify as "available", but he demoed full-screen editing with a mouse: http://arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/gui.ars/2 "The demo featured hypertext linking, full-screen document editing, context-sensitive help, networked document collaboration, e-mail, instant messenging, even video conferencing!" NLS ran on a version of UC Berkeley's Genie system, which can be considered an ancestor of Unix (maybe more-so than Multics?) Although early versions of TECO may not have supported direct-cursor addressing, TECO might have played a role in popularizing the notion of full-screen editors. From the wikipedia: "TECO became well-known following a DEC PDP-6 implementation developed at MIT's Project MAC in 1964. This implementation continuously displayed the edited text visually on a CRT screen, and was used as an interactive online editor. This was, however, neither its origin nor its originally intended mode of use. Later versions of TECO were capable of driving full-screen mode on various DEC RS232 video terminals." - bruce