Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 09:18:13 +0900 From: "Akinori MUSHA" <knu@iDaemons.org> To: Maxim Sobolev <sobomax@FreeBSD.org> Cc: MANTANI Nobutaka <nobutaka@nobutaka.com>, cvs-committers@FreeBSD.org, cvs-all@FreeBSD.org, ports@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: ports/graphics/autotrace Makefile ports/graphics/graphviz Makefile ports/graphics/libafterimage Makefile ports/graphics/librsvg Makefile ports/graphics/libwmf Makefile ports/graphics/sdl_ttf Makefile ports/print/ft2demos Makefile ... Message-ID: <86ofhuabay.wl@archon.local.idaemons.org> In-Reply-To: <1015886047.1763.26.camel@notebook> References: <200203111725.g2BHPVF52248@freefall.freebsd.org> <86adte28qw.wl@excalibur.nobutaka.com> <3C8D0B5D.3186A73D@FreeBSD.org> <86r8mqajfe.wl@archon.local.idaemons.org> <1015886047.1763.26.camel@notebook>
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At 12 Mar 2002 00:34:19 +0200,
sobomax wrote:
> As I said earlier, what we really need is the feature that will track
> ABI-incompatible upgrades and when such upgrade is performed bump
> PORTREVISION of all dependent ports automagically. Actually I've already
> described prototype of such feature and instead of spending out time
> arguing whether or not we need to bump PORTREVISION on 10 out of tens or
> even hundreds ports that use freetype (waste of time IMO) in the long
> run we are better off to implement such feature and forget about it.
That sounds good, but aren't you supposed to help the users today
before talking about the future? It is always innocent users who
suffer from developers' unthoughtful misjudgement. Remind that your
"wasting" time will help a bunch of users' and save their time a lot.
While that feature would be useful in the future and it is hard to do
the PORTREVISION bumps for each and every dependant port, how about
just doing with most popular ports such as ImageMagick/libwmf, gd/gd2
and XFree86-4-libraries for the moment? It might be good enough for
most users. If you don't object, shall I do it tonight?
> In a nutshell idea is to assign each port with something called
> PKGABIVERSION (>=0, non-decreasing), which will need to be increased
> each time when some ABI-incompatible change is committed (e.g. shlib
> version bump) and make PKGREVISION of each port be an arithmetical sum
> of PKGABIVERSION's of all its dependencies and its own PORTREVISION.
> Actual implementation I'm leaving as an exercise for the reader, because
> I do not use portupgrade by myself and therefore have no interest in
> doing it on my own. For me `pkg_delete -r freetype2\* ; cd
> /usr/ports/x11/gnome ; make reinstall' is absolutely sufficient.
No, I'm not talking about you but ordinary users. You are saying
what.. "People, just delete and reinstall everything, because I'm
absolutely fine with it." ?
Because you are the one who committed the upgrade, you surely know
exactly what is happening and how to handle the situation. But how
about users? They won't even know something significant is happening
until they happen to upgrade freetype2 and face the serious library
dependency breakage. By not bumping the dependant ports'
PORTREVISIONs, you are taking away the chance for them to "smell"
something significant, or at least you are making it unable for
pkg_version users to properly upgrade packages the way they usually do
on a weekly basis or so.
As for portupgrade, honestly I don't care a pin if you use it, if you
like it or if you take it into account when maintaining ports and
altering the ports infrastructure. I'm providing users the tool suite
because I want to allow them to handle difficult situations by
themselves even though the ports system is badly broken and even
though developers including me often do not do things properly where
they are supposed to.
I believe ports (and probably any tool/system for users) should not be
something you get used to using inconveniently. You should not assume
people can or should live with inconvenience that is avoidable if we
developers work just a little bit harder and wiser.
P.S.
I value your continuous efforts on ports and like your ideas like the
above. Maybe I'll comment on some of them later this week if I can
take the time.
--
/
/__ __ Akinori.org / MUSHA.org
/ ) ) ) ) / FreeBSD.org / Ruby-lang.org
Akinori MUSHA aka / (_ / ( (__( @ iDaemons.org / and.or.jp
"Somewhere out of a memory.. of lighted streets on quiet nights.."
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