Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2023 23:20:19 +0000 (UTC) From: Paul Pathiakis <pathiaki2@yahoo.com> To: Mario Marietto <marietto2008@gmail.com> Cc: "questions@freebsd.org" <questions@freebsd.org>, infoomatic <infoomatic@gmx.at> Subject: Re: Docker Message-ID: <1390653293.4101184.1681514419818@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <CA%2B1FSijAYbWDktOEbcAuAF8P-fTK5k_bDd0_isEKTUEAD-%2B2Ug@mail.gmail.com> References: <20230329053443.6ADA6B6AFED5@dhcp-8e64.meeting.ietf.org> <34b4b76e-1c41-4cfb-9e86-856f01e8abc9@app.fastmail.com> <CA%2B1FSihVrJ8cZ4ZU6mMr0sKJsZ98V4fh2vpDLugw7MGj-%2BEBPg@mail.gmail.com> <CA%2B1FSijL50mQ-HveBA4HZeNkSoaORv=aty-15nNLzn9amzY_nw@mail.gmail.com> <6002f636-310b-a9fd-b82f-346618976983@timpreston.net> <CA%2B1FSigV_pPwVW%2BDd8WZYGcNQVt7%2BYOcsnJFoRhS6jL5A636pg@mail.gmail.com> <20230412150350.12f97eb2c9dd566b8c8702d2@sohara.org> <CA%2B1FSihVPCQ6tp8u=aqnLyyOPpCMrnhYGcC8bCUgRbFHTdY5sA@mail.gmail.com> <1535315680.2770963.1681309684072@mail.yahoo.com> <CAHieY7RFe0P85twcs1NiiAvTTr4oGPJEtXEkufsXswQt3ECGvg@mail.gmail.com> <CA%2B1FSiiCG-iugAbSoNC2r5WXCJvgi6pj3jG74jCwukhNtb_XGA@mail.gmail.com> <CADGo8CXsCYCOi%2Bwk2ED7zpJdFQDhynzD0u1qFDUFS3RveS8wOg@mail.gmail.com> <CA%2B1FSij3VXqsGs5ZTUv%2B9Q2wJ18yCqVqgHAyGfCWc0C%2Bxi=KXw@mail.gmail.com> <543289768.3317542.1681394425362@mail.yahoo.com> <CA%2B1FSiicxR1hbd=LO8%2BPMyv7=OmXZGa3Uco1p-rRP3pe1Yf6hA@mail.gmail.com> <f59385ad-a467-5e24-3c17-72c17d3b5aca@gmx.at> <887947753.4080046.1681511775374@mail.yahoo.com> <CA%2B1FSijAYbWDktOEbcAuAF8P-fTK5k_bDd0_isEKTUEAD-%2B2Ug@mail.gmail.com>
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------=_Part_4101183_520072997.1681514419814
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Simply put, Linux could have done the same thing as jails but opted to not=
go in a standardized direction.
Instead, they went into a direction proprietary kernel hooks.=C2=A0 The peo=
ple in the BSD world are always doing project review before even thinking o=
f writing code.
Look at how jails are designed.=C2=A0 There are no proprietary hooks in my =
mind.=C2=A0 They just create a process that is nothing more than a process =
in the kernel's process table.=C2=A0 Simple.=C2=A0 Straightforward.
IF Linux had adopted a 'jail-like' design, there would be interoperability =
to some degree.=C2=A0 Imagine that Linux had a real packaging system and po=
rts system that didn't land the user in dependency hell on a constant basis=
.=C2=A0 It could do a lot of things that jails do.=C2=A0 Linux community co=
uld choose to do something like docker/podman but instead, have everything =
that would make calls to package repos, OS versions, etc.
I can run 4 different versions of PostgreSQL on 4 different versions of Fre=
eBSD in 4 jails....=C2=A0 I could choose to upgrade any of the 4 versions o=
f the operating system to something more recent (I tend to stay with -RELEA=
SEs) and I could choose to stay with the OS versions and upgrade the versio=
ns of PostGreSQL... mix, match, it all works
FreeBSD does research, design and they take their time.=C2=A0 I have no pro=
blems running on anything when it first releases.=C2=A0 I have actually see=
n Linux kernels go through security and operation patches of as many as 20-=
30 in the first 3 months of release.=C2=A0 That's not proper design.=C2=A0 =
That's not proper engineering.
Again, someone stated before that the Linux community thinks 'containers' a=
re the latest thing.... BSD people see them as mature 20 y.o. code.=C2=A0 *=
shrug*
Creating their hypervisor, BHYVE, I watched this community discuss it almos=
t ad infinitum before starting the work.
These are some of the prevalent differences between the philosophies of the=
two communities.=C2=A0 The are more and maybe my interpretations are 100% =
good/accurate.
Also, remember, the BSD license is WIDE OPEN.... the Linux community could =
have, at any time, borrowed the jails code and started a jails project... 2=
0 YEARS AGO.
How about databases?=C2=A0 There was mySQL and MariaDB and MongoDB and Couc=
hDB... etc etc etc.....=C2=A0 And there is Oracle.... and Sybase... oh... I=
mean MS-SQL....=C2=A0 25 years ago.... PostGreSQL...=C2=A0 Free!!!=C2=A0 O=
PEN!!!! Still is!!!=C2=A0 Bigger, better, stronger and faster than all of t=
hem.=C2=A0 People want to reinvent the wheel.=C2=A0 They should be applaude=
d for that.
However, after seeing round wheels, why in the heck would someone say "I wa=
nt to start with my own SQUARE wheel" when there's someone giving away roun=
d ones??=C2=A0 Well, I have yet to figure out if that's stupidity, arroganc=
e or just plain lack of discipline and training and ego to not ask for help=
.
Paul
On Friday, April 14, 2023 at 03:45:49 PM PDT, Mario Marietto <marietto2=
008@gmail.com> wrote: =20
=20
So,let me understand : docker images aren't compatible with FreeBSD. Imagi=
ne that the FreeBSD jails will be not compatible with Linux. Wow,this is tr=
ue interoperability.
On Sat, Apr 15, 2023 at 12:36=E2=80=AFAM Paul Pathiakis <pathiaki2@yahoo.co=
m> wrote:
Hi,
Personally, I think jails are brilliant and their evolution has also been b=
rilliant.
Gee, a complete operating system contained as a process running under the p=
arent process that behaves just like the parent OS.You can upgrade the OS, =
the pkgs, etc.
I really don't think it would be hard to create a 'library' of jails.
Here's a postfix jailHere's a DNS jailHere's a PostGreSQL jail
You can run your jails via the "Master Jailer"You can create your/library o=
f jails via "Jailer Key"You could put them in the "Jail Cell" of repositori=
es
I actually created this on my server when I was running my now defunct comp=
any.
Literally, 40-50 jails that were running on my server that was a couple of =
Opteron chips on a SuperMicro system.=C2=A0 It never so much had a load on =
it of 2-3 and it was doing so much.
It was so easy to upgrade the OS versions on the jails and the ports (had t=
o run ports for bug fixes)=C2=A0=C2=A0
I had some serious 'white hat' friends that offered to do pen testing....=
=C2=A0 (I was running PF with redirects to the ports in the jails and nothi=
ng else was open on them)... I got so many beers when they gave up. :)
Truly, believe podman and containerd are going to be a serious improvement/=
change.=C2=A0 However, at home, on my machines, FreeBSD 13.1 and 13.2 will =
be this weekend.
My gf and her 85 y.o mom are running GhostBSD right now.=C2=A0 THEY HAVE LO=
VED IT for the last 5 years.
Paul
On Friday, April 14, 2023 at 03:12:56 PM PDT, infoomatic <infoomatic@gm=
x.at> wrote: =20
=20
I think docker is a good example of how to NOT do things. There is a
reason why it is dying, lots of bad things have happened in docker land.
However, let me post my opinion. We can distinguish between two
different types of containerizations: system level containers and
applications level containers. Linux LXC and FreeBSD jails fall into the
former category.
OCI containers fall into the application level container category and
are moving away from the awkward Docker stack to sane solutions: podman,
containerd, cri-o etc.
The basic idea is: I have a repository which provides signed images for
the users to pull and use as a running container. For software vendors,
I can create an image which is basically a tar with the files and
layered filesystems that can be pushed to the repository. Just like a
jail, all the needed software, libraries are contained in one image, but
easier accessible for users. The container consists of filesystem layers
identified by a hash, which can be referenced to by other containers
(e.g. a Debian Linux container in its minimal edition might be the base
for the Kali Linux penetration testing container). Files that should
persist are mounted via mount_nullfs into the container. The cool thing
about that is: the images are created using a declarative manner, a yaml
file.
FreeBSD already provides lots of the technology necessary to build that
(I am not talking about running Linux containers, but FreeBSD
application level containers), however, it just lacks some glue like a
system for defining a config file from which such a container is built,
a repo, and I have no idea about how stable/performant unionfs is.
Unfortunately I have not yet had time to look at the proposed projects
of this thread.
A few use cases come to mind (well, actually much more since I have
worked with OCI/"Docker" since the beginning): "I want to host a simple
public jitsi server, do not want to go through all the config. Someone
made such a setup already and pushed that container to some repo, oh
nice, let's just pull it and run it", or maybe: "oh, I do want to use
keepass as password manager, but do not want it to be able to make
network connections. Fine, just download the container and forbid
network access." I am a lazy guy, I prefer spending my time on creating
stuff and pushing it to a repository instead of fumbling around with
ansible scripts to deploy that stuff when pushing and pulling an upgrade
is so much easier via providing self-contained images.
So, yes, I would absolutely love to see application level containers, or
such a slick framework built around the great jail solution we already
have. Passing around containers as a single binary package for FreeBSD -
one may dream ;-)
Regards,
Robert
On 13.04.23 17:43, Mario Marietto wrote:
> For sure not everything,but something that is very requested and that it
> has given a solid proof to be a valid and robust tool. I think Docker
> has all these requisites.
>
=20
--=20
Mario.
=20
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<html><head></head><body><div class=3D"ydp1fe7922ayahoo-style-wrap" style=
=3D"font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px=
;"><div></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">Simply put, Linux could have=
done the same thing as jails but opted to not go in a standardized directi=
on.</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" =
data-setdir=3D"false">Instead, they went into a direction proprietary kerne=
l hooks. The people in the BSD world are always doing project review =
before even thinking of writing code.</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"=
false"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">Look at how jails a=
re designed. There are no proprietary hooks in my mind. They ju=
st create a process that is nothing more than a process in the kernel's pro=
cess table. Simple. Straightforward.</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data=
-setdir=3D"false"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">IF Linux=
had adopted a 'jail-like' design, there would be interoperability to some =
degree. Imagine that Linux had a real packaging system and ports syst=
em that didn't land the user in dependency hell on a constant basis. =
It could do a lot of things that jails do. Linux community could choo=
se to do something like docker/podman but instead, have everything that wou=
ld make calls to package repos, OS versions, etc.</div><div dir=3D"ltr" dat=
a-setdir=3D"false"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">I can r=
un 4 different versions of PostgreSQL on 4 different versions of FreeBSD in=
4 jails.... I could choose to upgrade any of the 4 versions of the o=
perating system to something more recent (I tend to stay with -RELEASEs) an=
d I could choose to stay with the OS versions and upgrade the versions of P=
ostGreSQL... mix, match, it all works</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"=
false"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">FreeBSD does resear=
ch, design and they take their time. I have no problems running on an=
ything when it first releases. I have actually seen Linux kernels go =
through security and operation patches of as many as 20-30 in the first 3 m=
onths of release. That's not proper design. That's not proper e=
ngineering.</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><br></div><div dir=
=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">Again, someone stated before that the Linux =
community thinks 'containers' are the latest thing.... BSD people see them =
as mature 20 y.o. code. *shrug*</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"=
false"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">Creating their hype=
rvisor, BHYVE, I watched this community discuss it almost ad infinitum befo=
re starting the work.</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><br></div=
><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">These are some of the prevalent dif=
ferences between the philosophies of the two communities. The are mor=
e and maybe my interpretations are 100% good/accurate.</div><div dir=3D"ltr=
" data-setdir=3D"false"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">Al=
so, remember, the BSD license is WIDE OPEN.... the Linux community could ha=
ve, at any time, borrowed the jails code and started a jails project... 20 =
YEARS AGO.</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><br></div><div dir=
=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">How about databases? There was mySQL a=
nd MariaDB and MongoDB and CouchDB... etc etc etc..... And there is O=
racle.... and Sybase... oh... I mean MS-SQL.... 25 years ago.... Post=
GreSQL... Free!!! OPEN!!!! Still is!!! Bigger, better, st=
ronger and faster than all of them. People want to reinvent the wheel=
. They should be applauded for that.</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdi=
r=3D"false"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">However, after=
seeing round wheels, why in the heck would someone say "I want to start wi=
th my own SQUARE wheel" when there's someone giving away round ones?? =
Well, I have yet to figure out if that's stupidity, arrogance or just plai=
n lack of discipline and training and ego to not ask for help.</div><div di=
r=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"f=
alse">Paul</div><div><br></div>
=20
</div><div id=3D"ydpe4cab532yahoo_quoted_2488163269" class=3D"ydpe4=
cab532yahoo_quoted">
<div style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, s=
ans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
=20
<div>
On Friday, April 14, 2023 at 03:45:49 PM PDT, Mario Mar=
ietto <marietto2008@gmail.com> wrote:
</div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><div id=3D"ydpe4cab532yiv6171224177"><div><div dir=3D"=
ltr">So,let me understand : docker images aren't compatible with FreeBSD. I=
magine that the FreeBSD jails will be not compatible with Linux. Wow,t<span=
lang=3D"en">his is true interoperability.</span></div><br clear=3D"none"><=
div id=3D"ydpe4cab532yiv6171224177yqt24527" class=3D"ydpe4cab532yiv61712241=
77yqt4876069343"><div class=3D"ydpe4cab532yiv6171224177gmail_quote"><div di=
r=3D"ltr" class=3D"ydpe4cab532yiv6171224177gmail_attr">On Sat, Apr 15, 2023=
at 12:36=E2=80=AFAM Paul Pathiakis <<a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:pa=
thiaki2@yahoo.com" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">pathiaki2@yahoo.com</=
a>> wrote:<br clear=3D"none"></div><blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0=
px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;" class=3D=
"ydpe4cab532yiv6171224177gmail_quote"><div><div style=3D"font-family:Helvet=
ica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;"><div></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi,</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"></div=
><div dir=3D"ltr">Personally, I think jails are brilliant and their evoluti=
on has also been brilliant.</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"></div>=
<div dir=3D"ltr">Gee, a complete operating system contained as a process ru=
nning under the parent process that behaves just like the parent OS.</div><=
div dir=3D"ltr">You can upgrade the OS, the pkgs, etc.</div><div dir=3D"ltr=
"><br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">I really don't think it would b=
e hard to create a 'library' of jails.</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"n=
one"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Here's a postfix jail</div><div dir=3D"ltr">Her=
e's a DNS jail</div><div dir=3D"ltr">Here's a PostGreSQL jail</div><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">You can run your jails v=
ia the "Master Jailer"</div><div dir=3D"ltr">You can create your/library of=
jails via "Jailer Key"</div><div dir=3D"ltr">You could put them in the "Ja=
il Cell" of repositories</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"></div><di=
v dir=3D"ltr">I actually created this on my server when I was running my no=
w defunct company.</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=
=3D"ltr">Literally, 40-50 jails that were running on my server that was a c=
ouple of Opteron chips on a SuperMicro system. It never so much had a=
load on it of 2-3 and it was doing so much.</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br clea=
r=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">It was so easy to upgrade the OS versions=
on the jails and the ports (had to run ports for bug fixes) </d=
iv><div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">I had some se=
rious 'white hat' friends that offered to do pen testing.... (I was r=
unning PF with redirects to the ports in the jails and nothing else was ope=
n on them)... I got so many beers when they gave up. :)</div><div dir=3D"lt=
r"><br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Truly, believe podman and cont=
ainerd are going to be a serious improvement/change. However, at home=
, on my machines, FreeBSD 13.1 and 13.2 will be this weekend.</div><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">My gf and her 85 y.o mom=
are running GhostBSD right now. THEY HAVE LOVED IT for the last 5 ye=
ars.</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Paul</=
div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div>
=20
</div><div id=3D"ydpe4cab532yiv6171224177m_4589615827889197788m_-84=
17309789387283360ydp4a8f7ba4yahoo_quoted_2201716185">
<div style=3D"font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-siz=
e:13px;color:rgb(38,40,42);">
=20
<div>
On Friday, April 14, 2023 at 03:12:56 PM PDT, infoomati=
c <<a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:infoomatic@gmx.at" rel=3D"nofollow" =
target=3D"_blank">infoomatic@gmx.at</a>> wrote:
</div>
<div><br clear=3D"none"></div>
<div><br clear=3D"none"></div>
<div><div dir=3D"ltr">I think docker is a good example of h=
ow to NOT do things. There is a<br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">re=
ason why it is dying, lots of bad things have happened in docker land.<br c=
lear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"l=
tr">However, let me post my opinion. We can distinguish between two<br clea=
r=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">different types of containerizations: sys=
tem level containers and<br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">applicati=
ons level containers. Linux LXC and FreeBSD jails fall into the<br clear=3D=
"none"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">former category.<br clear=3D"none"></div><div=
dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">OCI containers fall =
into the application level container category and<br clear=3D"none"></div><=
div dir=3D"ltr">are moving away from the awkward Docker stack to sane solut=
ions: podman,<br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">containerd, cri-o et=
c.<br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">The basic idea is: I have a rep=
ository which provides signed images for<br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=
=3D"ltr">the users to pull and use as a running container. For software ven=
dors,<br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">I can create an image which =
is basically a tar with the files and<br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"l=
tr">layered filesystems that can be pushed to the repository. Just like a<b=
r clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">jail, all the needed software, libr=
aries are contained in one image, but<br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"l=
tr">easier accessible for users. The container consists of filesystem layer=
s<br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">identified by a hash, which can =
be referenced to by other containers<br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"lt=
r">(e.g. a Debian Linux container in its minimal edition might be the base<=
br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">for the Kali Linux penetration tes=
ting container). Files that should<br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"ltr"=
>persist are mounted via mount_nullfs into the container. The cool thing<br=
clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">about that is: the images are create=
d using a declarative manner, a yaml<br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"lt=
r">file.<br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"></div>=
<div dir=3D"ltr">FreeBSD already provides lots of the technology necessary =
to build that<br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">(I am not talking ab=
out running Linux containers, but FreeBSD<br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=
=3D"ltr">application level containers), however, it just lacks some glue li=
ke a<br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">system for defining a config =
file from which such a container is built,<br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=
=3D"ltr">a repo, and I have no idea about how stable/performant unionfs is.=
<br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Unfortunately I have not yet had =
time to look at the proposed projects<br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"l=
tr">of this thread.<br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"n=
one"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">A few use cases come to mind (well, actually mu=
ch more since I have<br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">worked with O=
CI/"Docker" since the beginning): "I want to host a simple<br clear=3D"none=
"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">public jitsi server, do not want to go through all=
the config. Someone<br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">made such a s=
etup already and pushed that container to some repo, oh<br clear=3D"none"><=
/div><div dir=3D"ltr">nice, let's just pull it and run it", or maybe: "oh, =
I do want to use<br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">keepass as passwo=
rd manager, but do not want it to be able to make<br clear=3D"none"></div><=
div dir=3D"ltr">network connections. Fine, just download the container and =
forbid<br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">network access." I am a laz=
y guy, I prefer spending my time on creating<br clear=3D"none"></div><div d=
ir=3D"ltr">stuff and pushing it to a repository instead of fumbling around =
with<br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">ansible scripts to deploy tha=
t stuff when pushing and pulling an upgrade<br clear=3D"none"></div><div di=
r=3D"ltr">is so much easier via providing self-contained images.<br clear=
=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">=
So, yes, I would absolutely love to see application level containers, or<br=
clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">such a slick framework built around =
the great jail solution we already<br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"ltr"=
>have. Passing around containers as a single binary package for FreeBSD -<b=
r clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">one may dream ;-)<br clear=3D"none"=
></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Regards,<=
br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Robert<br clear=3D"none"></div><di=
v dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none">=
</div><div dir=3D"ltr">On 13.04.23 17:43, Mario Marietto wrote:<br clear=3D=
"none"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">> For sure not everything,but something th=
at is very requested and that it<br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">&=
gt; has given a solid proof to be a valid and robust tool. I think Docker<b=
r clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">> has all these requisites.<br c=
lear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">><br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"></div=
></div>
</div>
</div></div></blockquote></div></div><br clear=3D"all"><br clear=3D=
"none"><span>-- </span><br clear=3D"none"><div dir=3D"ltr">Mario.<br clear=
=3D"none"></div>
</div></div></div>
</div>
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