From nobody Sat Jan 13 20:20:02 2024 X-Original-To: dev-commits-ports-all@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4TC8sR4z1Dz56Zmx for ; Sat, 13 Jan 2024 20:20:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from daniel.engberg.lists@pyret.net) Received: from smtp-190c.mail.infomaniak.ch (smtp-190c.mail.infomaniak.ch [IPv6:2001:1600:4:17::190c]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "relay.mail.infomaniak.ch", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4TC8sR1Cvvz4Hwq for ; Sat, 13 Jan 2024 20:20:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from daniel.engberg.lists@pyret.net) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from smtp-3-0000.mail.infomaniak.ch (unknown [10.4.36.107]) by smtp-3-3000.mail.infomaniak.ch (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4TC8sH0lrBzMq0sw; Sat, 13 Jan 2024 20:20:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: from unknown by smtp-3-0000.mail.infomaniak.ch (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 4TC8sG5CqBz3f; Sat, 13 Jan 2024 21:20:02 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=pyret.net; s=20231006; t=1705177203; bh=gPylENglSzrURxZr8Z7rw3VWbACJOM3XMcjic9Alg2o=; h=Date:Subject:From:Reply-To:To:Cc:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=Wb17rEHTQocOjwi/mwW+Yl+9i+NWZtR0VlZXDBHFtCMI9WhR0TTVM8cQ5amcLL+Lq Sfa+O8W6fXW3d+aNE1cDHdImzmUGY3sP+QtudZt4KjSRDQC9rd/tLegtb5mS8AvB5R /WXrwK3EqcdmKY/skYv8uOFtQU840hpkcz2OAmrQdMDCt1QVaLwT1XZYVIJKic70he rjZDuwTEriULmdIdMA1GT15TBlZwDxsTbdyAE4TyeVObPTdwd7U0j1WnIpLMyx7Bi3 EPMmgtY+ghLLEvOR0u9FLzu+alGYm2gUnmdr/ktdHEKgS0PtGLHJX6IAblJtgBzPWh 2pwAqNmMcFfRg== Message-ID: Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2024 21:20:02 +0100 Subject: Re: git: 25e6f68a6661 - main - textproc/libxml2: Update to 2.11.6 From: Daniel Engberg Reply-To: Daniel Engberg To: Charlie Li Cc: Gleb Popov , ports-committers@freebsd.org, dev-commits-ports-all@freebsd.org, dev-commits-ports-main@freebsd.org List-Id: Commit messages for all branches of the ports repository List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/dev-commits-ports-all List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-dev-commits-ports-all@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: dev-commits-ports-all@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_=_swift_1705177202_df9c4f792d380b0d1dd7eb170b2cf2bb_=_" X-WS-User-Origin: eyJpdiI6Ik9FTkIzekRGaXcxSG5TcWE3b0VTYWc9PSIsInZhbHVlIjoiWit3VlQ5elpleXd2TUJuNklIUGpkUT09IiwibWFjIjoiYWM1NjEzMzgyZTU0NTg4YWFkYTM3YWI5MmIxMGRlOTY3MWE5NjNlMjg1N2UxN2U0MWUyMGE5YWExYTIzNTkxZCIsInRhZyI6IiJ9 X-WS-User-Mbox: eyJpdiI6IlhpMmJuZWFQb1UzRENVajdhcFhnbUE9PSIsInZhbHVlIjoiU2ZDQ0hCZUtQc0lXNGFNRkc5MXI5QT09IiwibWFjIjoiYzk4Y2M2N2RjYWI4Y2IyNjRkZGI1NmNlZjQxNjJiOTgwOTdmZmY4NGY0YzEzMGRkYTcyM2Y2MDIyZDA0ZDI5MCIsInRhZyI6IiJ9 X-WS-Location: eJxzKUpMKykGAAfpAmU- X-Mailer: Infomaniak Workspace (1.3.620) References: <202401121705.40CH5JhG014492@gitrepo.freebsd.org> <02ebab1b-a763-45e4-9380-0d82c83c22a4@freebsd.org> <30d803b8ab6713c88aa8fe2c0e516e51@mail.infomaniak.com> <84d0b8cc-3400-4eee-82ee-409120cdaba9@freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: <84d0b8cc-3400-4eee-82ee-409120cdaba9@freebsd.org> X-Infomaniak-Routing: alpha X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4TC8sR1Cvvz4Hwq X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:29222, ipnet:2001:1600::/32, country:CH] --_=_swift_1705177202_df9c4f792d380b0d1dd7eb170b2cf2bb_=_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2024-01-13T20:27:45.000+01:00, Charlie Li wrote:= >=C2=A0Daniel=C2=A0Engberg=C2=A0wrote: >>=C2=A0=C2=A0On=C2=A02024-0= 1-13T18:46:34.000+01:00,=C2=A0Charlie=C2=A0Li >>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0wrote: >>=C2=A0=C2=A0 >>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0The=C2=A0Build= =C2=A0Instructions=C2=A0section=C2=A0of=C2=A0the=C2=A0README=C2=A0specifica= lly=C2=A0states >>=C2=A0=C2=A0 >>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0"Autotools=C2=A0(for= =C2=A0POSIX=C2=A0systems=C2=A0like=C2=A0Linux,=C2=A0BSD,=C2=A0macOS)",= =C2=A0even=C2=A0in >>=C2=A0=C2=A0the >>=C2=A0=C2=A0 >>=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0latest=C2=A0trunk.=C2=A0CMake=C2=A0was=C2=A0originally=C2=A0added= =C2=A0mainly=C2=A0for=C2=A0Windows >>=C2=A0=C2=A0support. >>=C2=A0= =C2=A0 >>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Their=C2=A0CMake=C2=A0support=C2=A0on=C2=A0pla= tforms=C2=A0like=C2=A0ours=C2=A0still=C2=A0has=C2=A0an >>=C2=A0=C2=A0outs= tanding=C2=A0bug >>=C2=A0=C2=A0 >>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0pertaining=C2=A0to= =C2=A0dependency=C2=A0resolution,=C2=A0which=C2=A0at=C2=A0least=C2=A0I= =C2=A0consider=C2=A0a >>=C2=A0=C2=A0 >>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0showstopper.= =C2=A0While=C2=A0upstream=C2=A0have=C2=A0been=C2=A0accepting=C2=A0and=C2= =A0responsive=C2=A0to >>=C2=A0=C2=A0any >>=C2=A0=C2=A0 >>=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0and=C2=A0all=C2=A0improvements=C2=A0to=C2=A0their=C2=A0CMake=C2= =A0support,=C2=A0that=C2=A0is=C2=A0irrelevant >>=C2=A0=C2=A0until >>= =C2=A0=C2=A0 >>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0they=C2=A0explicitly=C2=A0bless=C2=A0it= =C2=A0as=C2=A0an=C2=A0equal=C2=A0to=C2=A0autotools.=C2=A0(Not=C2=A0to=C2= =A0say >>=C2=A0=C2=A0 >>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0autotools >>=C2=A0=C2=A0 = >>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0is=C2=A0perfect=C2=A0either,=C2=A0far=C2=A0from=C2= =A0it) >>=C2=A0=C2=A0 >>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Personally,=C2=A0between= =C2=A0the=C2=A0two=C2=A0choices=C2=A0here,=C2=A0I=C2=A0prefer=C2=A0CMake.= =C2=A0But >>=C2=A0=C2=A0personal >>=C2=A0=C2=A0 >>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0preferences=C2=A0are=C2=A0irrelevant=C2=A0wrt=C2=A0liability=C2=A0and= =C2=A0support=C2=A0issues. >>=C2=A0=C2=A0 >>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Hi, >>= =C2=A0=C2=A0 >>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0That's=C2=A0a=C2=A0bit=C2=A0contractiona= ry?=C2=A0We=C2=A0upstream=C2=A0patches,=C2=A0community=C2=A0and >>=C2= =A0=C2=A0others=C2=A0 >>=C2=A0=C2=A0 >>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0also=C2=A0do= =C2=A0and=C2=A0yet=C2=A0there's=C2=A0a=C2=A0"support=C2=A0issue"=C2=A0despi= te=C2=A0autotools=C2=A0is >>=C2=A0=C2=A0"far=C2=A0from=C2=A0 >>=C2= =A0=C2=A0 >>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0it"=C2=A0(perfect)?=C2=A0Why=C2=A0not=C2= =A0embrace=C2=A0instead=C2=A0of=C2=A0obstructing?=C2=A0Please >>=C2=A0= =C2=A0keep=C2=A0in=C2=A0 >>=C2=A0=C2=A0 >>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0mind=C2= =A0ports=C2=A0is=C2=A0a=C2=A0joint=C2=A0/=C2=A0community=C2=A0effort=C2= =A0which=C2=A0is=C2=A0why=C2=A0we=C2=A0have >>=C2=A0=C2=A0groups,=C2= =A0 >>=C2=A0=C2=A0 >>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0guidelines=C2=A0etc=C2=A0and= =C2=A0for=C2=A0custom=C2=A0trees=C2=A0there's=C2=A0overlay=C2=A0support= =C2=A0for >>=C2=A0=C2=A0who=C2=A0want=C2=A0 >>=C2=A0=C2=A0 >>=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0or=C2=A0need=C2=A0to=C2=A0diverge. >=C2=A0 >=C2=A0=C2= =A0Not=C2=A0contradictory=C2=A0at=C2=A0all.=C2=A0autotools=C2=A0has=C2= =A0and=C2=A0remains=C2=A0the=C2=A0default=C2=A0and >=C2=A0thus=C2=A0 >= =C2=A0 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=C2=A0other=C2=A0method=C2=A0in=C2=A0overlays=C2=A0and=C2=A0whatnot,=C2= =A0but=C2=A0the >=C2=A0main=C2=A0 >=C2=A0 >=C2=A0ports=C2=A0tree= =C2=A0needs=C2=A0to=C2=A0be=C2=A0kept=C2=A0production-ready=C2=A0as=C2= =A0much=C2=A0as=C2=A0possible, >=C2=A0and=C2=A0 >=C2=A0 >=C2=A0part= =C2=A0of=C2=A0that=C2=A0means=C2=A0respecting=C2=A0upstream's=C2=A0wishes= =C2=A0as=C2=A0much=C2=A0as >=C2=A0practicable=C2=A0 >=C2=A0 >=C2= =A0so=C2=A0that=C2=A0we=C2=A0as=C2=A0a=C2=A0community=C2=A0(especially= =C2=A0including=C2=A0users)=C2=A0stay=C2=A0on=C2=A0good=C2=A0 >=C2=A0 >= =C2=A0terms=C2=A0with=C2=A0upstream.=C2=A0We=C2=A0can=C2=A0upstream=C2= =A0stuff=C2=A0that=C2=A0they=C2=A0accept=C2=A0to=C2=A0our=C2=A0 >=C2= =A0 >=C2=A0hearts'=C2=A0content,=C2=A0but=C2=A0upstream=C2=A0still=C2= =A0needs=C2=A0to=C2=A0explicitly=C2=A0acknowledge >=C2=A0them=C2=A0 >= =C2=A0 >=C2=A0as=C2=A0production-ready=C2=A0before=C2=A0we=C2=A0use=C2= =A0them=C2=A0in=C2=A0our=C2=A0main=C2=A0tree.=C2=A0Using=C2=A0a=C2=A0 >= =C2=A0 >=C2=A0different=C2=A0method=C2=A0than=C2=A0what=C2=A0upstream= =C2=A0declared=C2=A0for=C2=A0us=C2=A0to=C2=A0use=C2=A0is=C2=A0not=C2=A0 >= =C2=A0 >=C2=A0exactly=C2=A0respecting=C2=A0their=C2=A0wishes. >=C2= =A0 >=C2=A0--=C2=A0 >=C2=A0 >=C2=A0Charlie=C2=A0Li >=C2=A0 >= =C2=A0...nope,=C2=A0still=C2=A0don't=C2=A0have=C2=A0an=C2=A0exit=C2=A0line.= Hi, It's a collaboration and seemingly multiple people seem to a= gree both within and outside the project on that given the engagement, yo= u seem to disagree on that which is a bit concerning. Everything is a l= iability like that including even updating and everything is best effort.= But again, if you or others want to start to upstream Autotools fixes et= c by all means go ahead but has yet to occur. If we can work with upstrea= m and reduce the amount of local patches, hacks and have clean Makefiles = that's a win for everyone irregardless of build system. Best regards= , Daniel --_=_swift_1705177202_df9c4f792d380b0d1dd7eb170b2cf2bb_=_ Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On 2024-01-13T20:27:45.000+01:00, Charlie Li <vishwin@freebsd.org&g= t; wrote:
Daniel=
 Engberg wrote:
  On 2024-0=
1-13T18:46:34.000+01:00, Charlie Li <vishwin@freebsd.org> wrote:
<=
div>     The Build Instructions section of the README specifically states
"Autotools (for POSIX systems like Linux, BSD, macOS)", e= ven in the
latest trunk. CMake was originally added main= ly for Windows support.
Their CMake support on platforms= like ours still has an outstanding bug
pertaining to de= pendency resolution, which at least I consider a
showsto= pper. While upstream have been accepting and responsive to any
and all improvements to their CMake support, that is irrelevant unti= l
they explicitly bless it as an equal to autotools. (No= t to say
autotools
is perfect either,= far from it)

Personally, between the tw= o choices here, I prefer CMake. But personal
preferences= are irrelevant wrt liability and support issues.

=

Hi,

That's a bit contr= actionary? We upstream patches, community and others
also d= o and yet there's a "support issue" despite autotools is "far from
it" (perfect)? Why not embrace instead of obstructing? Please keep = in
mind ports is a joint / community effort which is why we= have groups,
guidelines etc and for custom trees there's o= verlay support for who want
or need to diverge.

Not contradictory at all. autotools has an= d remains the default and thus
the most supported option for= our case. If there is any perceived
obstruction, it is on u= pstream declaring that another option is equally
viable and = supported for our case, in a *release*.

Commun= ity effort goes multiple ways, but the buck still stops with both
us and whatever upstream we port/deal with. Users in particular could= be
reporting bugs and other issues here or upstream. We may= not have
upstream's full picture of warts and consideration= s; they will certainly
not have our (or any other operating = system distribution's) full
picture. Especially with somethi= ng reported upstream that is specific to
our implementation,= if it is because the port/package from main uses a
method d= ifferent than that prescribed for us, it becomes our problem!
This is the liability.

You can repeat the wo= rd or meaning of "collaboration" until blue in the
face, but= the reality in the world of spare time/effort is limited. Yes,
<= div>anyone can use the other method in overlays and whatnot, but the main <= br>
ports tree needs to be kept production-ready as much as possi= ble, and
part of that means respecting upstream's wishes as = much as practicable
so that we as a community (especially in= cluding users) stay on good
terms with upstream. We can upst= ream stuff that they accept to our
hearts' content, but upst= ream still needs to explicitly acknowledge them
as productio= n-ready before we use them in our main tree. Using a
differe= nt method than what upstream declared for us to use is not
e= xactly respecting their wishes.

--
<= div>Charlie Li
...nope, still don't have an exit line.
Hi,

It's a co= llaboration and seemingly multiple people seem to agree both within and out= side the project on that given the engagement, you seem to disagree on that= which is a bit concerning. Everything is a liability like that including e= ven updating and everything is best effort. But again, if you or others wan= t to start to upstream Autotools fixes etc by all means go ahead but has ye= t to occur. If we can work with upstream and reduce the amount of local pat= ches, hacks and have clean Makefiles that's a win for everyone irregardless= of build system.

Best regards,
= Daniel
--_=_swift_1705177202_df9c4f792d380b0d1dd7eb170b2cf2bb_=_--