From owner-freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Sep 1 17:56:52 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 136751065676; Sat, 1 Sep 2012 17:56:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jlaffaye.freebsd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ee0-f54.google.com (mail-ee0-f54.google.com [74.125.83.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9E738FC1A; Sat, 1 Sep 2012 17:56:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: by eeke52 with SMTP id e52so1632468eek.13 for ; Sat, 01 Sep 2012 10:56:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=sender:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=4zLm8n+Z1/L6gNqFKUljQdrC0hSYc9Ia7WFCHxOD6dk=; b=SPE0eRJisokBaCEnCNX7JSkRi/Ynd/FWOWNXvqoOchA5Ee3P2paeae4ueotOGRDs4r FVMdlDjl19QWWkC90+P1d20OZTjux6X9EGxaUOooFQYDtnKHqAYsrjaUEvYEyeEnaZoR 8TSiAquvTnRXs37qVUpuZpZReAg5SHpGgWTO7agesx8aOcJ2Ff4tQmg6Vaxp+oJ1UPkd LM5Micafdvxent6zYCkOoGy+3DhBxf77U0NTXFVOtr+w/brKZnbChU13q4EUw06rzLSq 0rHWhB50jpbndtYDxrKbDR4xitV7np2MfEipgAoHEjCETFcK6PD7ZD/Jx3k3MLP8mEKB zf1w== Received: by 10.14.172.129 with SMTP id t1mr15359167eel.34.1346522204332; Sat, 01 Sep 2012 10:56:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2001:41d0:fc00:100:1480:18ea:2c8b:9dc3? ([2001:41d0:fc00:100:1480:18ea:2c8b:9dc3]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id h2sm22525814eeo.3.2012.09.01.10.56.42 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 01 Sep 2012 10:56:43 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Julien Laffaye Message-ID: <50424C58.2030304@freebsd.org> Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2012 19:56:40 +0200 From: Julien Laffaye User-Agent: Thunderbird/7.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tijl Coosemans References: <97612B57-1255-4BB3-A6D3-FC74324C6D67@FreeBSD.org> <503FF0EE.2020605@FreeBSD.org> <20120831095910.GQ64447@ithaqua.etoilebsd.net> <201208310810.50725.jhb@freebsd.org> <20120831122211.GS64447@ithaqua.etoilebsd.net> <50424956.4090804@freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: <50424956.4090804@freebsd.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Baptiste Daroussin , Doug Barton , John Baldwin , freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-ports , Chris Rees Subject: Re: pkgng suggestion: renaming /usr/sbin/pkg to /usr/sbin/pkg-bootstrap X-BeenThere: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting software to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2012 17:56:52 -0000 On 9/1/2012 7:43 PM, Tijl Coosemans wrote: > On 31-08-2012 14:22, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: >> On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 08:10:50AM -0400, John Baldwin wrote: >>> On Friday, August 31, 2012 5:59:10 am Baptiste Daroussin wrote: >>>> On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 01:02:06PM -1000, Doug Barton wrote: >>>>> I agree with John on all counts here. Further, the idea of a >>>>> self-installing package, at least for the pkg stuff itself, addresses >>>>> the issue that someone else brought up about how to handle installation >>>>> of pkg by the installer for a new system. >>>> I like the idea of also providing a self-installing package, and it seems really >>>> easy to do, so I'll try to see what I can do in this area I'll wrote a PoC in 5 >>>> minutes which looks pretty good, this could also be a very simple and easy way >>>> to integrate into bsdinstaller. >>>> >>>> I'll do work in that direction. >>>> >>>> Still it doesn't solve the problem of boostrapping pkgng in a fresh new box, >>>> because the user may not know where to download the pkg-setup.sh. >>> I do think that is something bsdinstall should be able to handle, and I would >>> certainly want bsdinstall to include a dialog that says "do you want to install >>> the package manager?" >> Of course this is being worked on by dteske@ on his bsdconfig scripts, so yes in >> anycase the bsdinstaller will end up with a boostrap dialog to install pkgng. > Something else I thought of, you can't assume there's a working internet > connection during installation. And also, even if there is a connection, can > you guarantee that the downloaded pkg supports the packages on the dvd for > the lifetime of the release? The packages set included on the dvd will probably be EOLed before the lifetime of the release. > I really think you should just do vendor imports of pkg in base and include > pkg on the dvd. There's no bootstrap problem then and the dvd is nicely > self-contained. It also shouldn't be a problem to keep the official pkg repo > for that release compatible with it. Just keep using the same version of pkg > to create the repo. > > You've been able to develop and introduce pkgng without breaking older > releases which shows having pkg tools tied to releases was never a problem. > All that was needed was to move pkg development outside base. You should be > able to do pkg 2.0 development in the same way. And when that new version > is ready you import betas and release candidates in head and use current > users as testers, just like is done with clang. > > In this scenario the ports tree needs to keep support for older releases, > but that's a consequence of the fact that there's only one ports tree for > all releases. Somewhere in between the ports and the various releases there > has to be some form encapsulation, not just for pkg, but for all the tools > used by the ports tree. Given how the ports tree currently encapsulates > both the old and new pkg tools I don't see how supporting multiple versions > of pkgng would be a problem because presumably the difference between pkgng > versions is going to be much smaller than the difference between the old > and new tools. >