From owner-freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Dec 1 23:27:43 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A63016A41B for ; Sat, 1 Dec 2007 23:27:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from youshi10@u.washington.edu) Received: from mxout5.cac.washington.edu (mxout5.cac.washington.edu [140.142.32.135]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 472E513C468 for ; Sat, 1 Dec 2007 23:27:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from youshi10@u.washington.edu) Received: from smtp.washington.edu (smtp.washington.edu [140.142.32.141] (may be forged)) by mxout5.cac.washington.edu (8.13.7+UW06.06/8.13.7+UW07.09) with ESMTP id lB1NRgNl032085 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 1 Dec 2007 15:27:42 -0800 X-Auth-Received: from [128.208.5.249] (lodovico.cs.washington.edu [128.208.5.249]) (authenticated authid=youshi10) by smtp.washington.edu (8.13.7+UW06.06/8.13.7+UW07.09) with ESMTP id lB1NRfiT032382 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Sat, 1 Dec 2007 15:27:42 -0800 Message-ID: <4751EE49.2050900@u.washington.edu> Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2007 15:29:13 -0800 From: Garrett Cooper User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Stephen Montgomery-Smith References: <33640.194.74.82.3.1196149681.squirrel@galain.elvandar.org> <200712011149.11212.david@vizion2000.net> <20071201134519.S16007@cauchy.math.missouri.edu> <200712011450.58878.david@vizion2000.net> <4751E594.6010105@gmail.com> <20071201170552.V16007@cauchy.math.missouri.edu> In-Reply-To: <20071201170552.V16007@cauchy.math.missouri.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-PMX-Version: 5.3.3.310218, Antispam-Engine: 2.5.2.313940, Antispam-Data: 2007.12.1.151612 X-Uwash-Spam: Gauge=IIIIIII, Probability=7%, Report='__CT 0, __CTE 0, __CT_TEXT_PLAIN 0, __HAS_MSGID 0, __LINES_OF_YELLING 0, __MIME_TEXT_ONLY 0, __MIME_VERSION 0, __SANE_MSGID 0, __STOCK_PHRASE_1 0, __USER_AGENT 0' Cc: David Southwell , "Aryeh M. Friedman" , freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Subject: Re: duration of the ports freeze X-BeenThere: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting software to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2007 23:27:43 -0000 Stephen Montgomery-Smith wrote: > > > On Sat, 1 Dec 2007, Aryeh M. Friedman wrote: > >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> Hash: SHA1 >> >> David Southwell wrote: >>> On Saturday 01 December 2007 11:54:40 Stephen Montgomery-Smith >>> wrote: >>>> On Sat, 1 Dec 2007, David Southwell wrote: >>>>> On Saturday 01 December 2007 10:28:40 Erik Trulsson wrote: >>>>>> Personally, as a user, I have never really been even slightly >>>>>> inconvienced by any of the ports tree freezes. >>>>> All I can say is bully for you! The question is how do we get >>>>> rid of a p[roblem even if it is not a disadvantage for you >>>>> personally. It is disappointing when one hears arguments not to >>>>> change simply because one particular individual is not >>>>> disadvantaged by a currently illogical and antiquated solution >>>>> to a problem that will inevitably grow as the number of ports >>>>> increase. >>>>> >>>>> We need to grasp the nettle while we may!! >>>> I think that you and Aryeh are not getting that it is not just >>>> "bully for you." There is a major effort required to change the >>>> way we do ports. Even if the current system has some >>>> imperfections, you have to persuade the FreeBSD community that >>>> the benfits of fixing things are greater than the costs. >>>> >>>> My personal assessment is that now is NOT the time to grap the >>>> nettle. Over time the ports system will acquire more and more >>>> problems, until perhaps in ten or twenty years time it will be >>>> unusable. Then it will be time to fix it, when we have a clearer >>>> picture of what all the problems really are. Or maybe by then >>>> things will have happened that make this whole issue moot. I >>>> just don't think it is worth the effort to fix this problem now, >>>> especially when the benefits will only be to a few power users. >>> Just who does not get it!! This reminds me of the presidential >>> "there is no such thing as global warming" response to climate >>> change debate. Wait for twenty years until events force us to fix >>> it and then we will do something. >>>> Look, its good that you feel the freedom to complain, and >>>> advocate for change. But don't get upset when others say they >>>> like the status quo. They need to have freedom to say their >>>> piece too. >>> The issue is about responsibility. Clearly the price of status quo >>> is at minimum inconvenience for many and at worst unacceptable >>> interference for an undefined number. What is wrong with trying to >>> fix it now? Those who advocate change are not trying to get a fix >>> it to make life worse for anyone. There is nothing wrong with >>> change!! >>> >> >> I am willing to put my code where my mouth is if we can get a good >> percentage of ports into a new system to test the two side by side >> (say the entire xorg meta port)... note to the skeptics out there this >> is not meant to replace ports just be a proof of concept for a >> possible replacement. >> > > Excellent idea! Just thought I'd note: I've just restarted my SoC work on pkg_install and will be working into next year, so don't worry about that loose end.. -Garrett