From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Sat Aug 6 10:00:57 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28A2FBB0CA2 for ; Sat, 6 Aug 2016 10:00:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from baptiste.daroussin@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wm0-x242.google.com (mail-wm0-x242.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::242]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B4DA21977; Sat, 6 Aug 2016 10:00:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from baptiste.daroussin@gmail.com) Received: by mail-wm0-x242.google.com with SMTP id x83so7044793wma.3; Sat, 06 Aug 2016 03:00:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=sender:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=FmgDoEvmhZnjv2SvAfO9PJ1mmPGpDzqa+9yhC4s2YqQ=; b=d453am8wPp7NWIEfu6JGqZ/DcLunnkQ1V0wBxWiYJC7mN9Vy7E6GhSATLD3DJbn++c oJVU5IDcnjuIAjhh2XnZAcGbtSJAtqOmJVXy40rjo93seUMTGm5HO0ityuLuPqdwF1kM X4q2j5DEFzsDp4idZ73ZLqg6/xKC7mbYCQEGQ9eVJYNDvs0vdX8RmckSiYaVOgIyL2KY 6/XdTfUhUzSBpv+diQRkZ9lihV5UC1vwyaLZxFpeCfNcX9nN928utd44zDz2tRByQfcl pF0mNNT4r/LWPmQxzSxX9TuwMlAJShP8QL0y44SfT+aHIslndlRF/JPuVhZvreymdq18 IEaA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id :references:mime-version:content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=FmgDoEvmhZnjv2SvAfO9PJ1mmPGpDzqa+9yhC4s2YqQ=; b=L+j2kL2J+HQJKGo/FGng6hQSgbADLnqGaRpwtsQzAqvk0njYz0pQ5Oe6Uz/gpVl8to ZOlGVlTmbjOPfNzP2whPFzTxhKcj8zwW2VHHZZgCc5Qy1zXkynXNtaQfBfwgENJ1VFiY M9a8Xs1/UjAkEVj8fuhvTwk1Np2tXL28Wn8JO5OGrFyjav4/+JGmfpNW6MusKeSRFLhm x+U4QaBEm9GhVcEP3856n5JEqmfy6ZyDHXg/8VTs6kLjqFSu0hTt0pm6qA/DQHvb8N9s zYA0MjLMoAZOdb8DfBR8QcqAg7R0+o6dkx5kcHz/pxymzVmq+6e7gynRyidFtbqRaqD1 hgyw== X-Gm-Message-State: AEkoouttSE7lpkiwoaFLT2+T+NFzeVOgfYFe1gpMgt0qZqMvrozzW6ax8CAM6s6C+BzHtQ== X-Received: by 10.28.41.131 with SMTP id p125mr7152138wmp.15.1470477654804; Sat, 06 Aug 2016 03:00:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ivaldir.etoilebsd.net ([2001:41d0:8:db4c::1]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p1sm22109806wjd.37.2016.08.06.03.00.54 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 06 Aug 2016 03:00:54 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Baptiste Daroussin Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2016 12:00:53 +0200 From: Baptiste Daroussin To: Greg 'groggy' Lehey Cc: Andrey Chernov , Mark Martinec , freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: date(1) default format changed between 10.3 and 11.0-BETA3 Message-ID: <20160806100053.5fpf27pcgona7czp@ivaldir.etoilebsd.net> References: <3629a441-ee6d-2407-fa13-5ebd8db8d802@freebsd.org> <000c29ee0f3dbd1d433c565023d69e25@mailbox.ijs.si> <279e9b67-da23-cdd6-3a77-b084ad8269eb@freebsd.org> <4a454eef-55ae-b90d-4441-2aa9708fc747@freebsd.org> <20160806041536.GL86883@eureka.lemis.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="yvyxn2j2jf2min7h" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20160806041536.GL86883@eureka.lemis.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.6.2-neo (2016-07-23) X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 06 Aug 2016 10:00:57 -0000 --yvyxn2j2jf2min7h Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Aug 06, 2016 at 02:15:36PM +1000, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: > On Friday, 5 August 2016 at 18:56:33 +0300, Andrey A. Chernov wrote: > > On 05.08.2016 18:44, Mark Martinec wrote: > >> On 2016-08-05 17:23, Andrey Chernov wrote: > >>> On 05.08.2016 17:47, Mark Martinec wrote: > >>>> [Bug 211598] > >>>> date(1) default format in en_EN locale breaks compatibility with 1= 0.3 > >>>> and violates POSIX > >>>> > >>>> https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=3D211598 > >>> > >>> It breaks compatibility but not violates POSIX. POSIX care of only its > >>> own POSIX (or C) locale. > >> > >> POSIX does say that the default format should be the same > >> as with "+%a %b %e %H:%M:%S %Z %Y". > >> It also says that %a and %b are locale's abbreviated names. > > > > It is true for _POSIX_ locale only, as I already say. en_US.* is not > > POSIX or C locale. >=20 > It still violates POLA. >=20 I really do not think that it violates POLA fiven that the behaviour you are expecting is still available in the default configurtion that is still POSI= X. Set LC_TIME to C and then you are back on your behaviour (and this is the default when you install FreeBSD). locales should be seen as tzdata for exemple, they are a moving target complicated to handle for every locale we do support: 78 for 11.0-RELEASE a= nd 193 if we do count the encoding variants. locales are updated very often (f= or exemple cldr unicode make a new release of the data every 8 month or so) No locales defines the same date format and that was already the case befor= e the change we did Now if people have strong arguments for a specific locale I'm inclined to a= dd some hacks in our tool that generates our locales to make sure we fix the upstream data (http://cldr.unicode.org) we already committed some and I'm planning to report upstream (cldr) all the issues we have faced to improve. Best regards, Bapt --yvyxn2j2jf2min7h Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJXpbVUAAoJEGOJi9zxtz5a2r0QAKpd1WnYZMMOHO311Ipp1qRh 6PQOxnzPiolfzKGpaOQvQI0ZNuQfNNNrWP37/J1XoCkv5ObqY0P/Nw/KrQ8JyQ70 MeYlf5V0TFt1OEcFLrtIhkwtjPwM4wQ80KOFFDwPsKjbAtJm0SXhVSGljkgxtm7d 8ey87vm7G508zLaT4hld7FmFwEbBTdkd/pFdDI5JWZESU7abHcZ29duk+4FZ6BHl KBrJreBp1AboYIyYHEEdNxtgyb+Jcc19Y8FextyPmGoICHmNJEnbySPhpe0A/AUR LsnJV7+ofMtZeYrxaJFVYHfwkyNt0EFNQH4N4ERilVlW6n8cvS6zoFTDpGz5m4zi pLqGDOWUBQx+q6m+oDxujeTIlxScbjoUSnJ5//TQ9gRdCvFUYfdJ+cTYGZ/bXkmD 20Tm7eo690HYBJyA8hAgDr1x1a8VNvQkOYlqjCWDI/YwQG48FTm+TO0xmtpeNdJT pu5+BGFt21/zCcbSwk5AbC+A6BOku0gOYXNyjei0CZzPqPzQnnmvlnVSsKi+neoz kx1maf5dyLVmcS7AYZ1VLPjn3rcKlW3A1wTXZ/3X4F52z+h1vJj1paEMsSJm6a8P 9QMaTHJeQeOpC2nQajpsHEIK/q96CBq2HOisASnaRtc5mikN+w41sCEHV/wP/Xqr eklY4chkV5qRI4RIqihG =AY8v -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --yvyxn2j2jf2min7h--