From nobody Sat Feb 3 20:02:13 2024 X-Original-To: freebsd-arch@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4TS3Tm6rHWz58K2X for ; Sat, 3 Feb 2024 20:02:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-ed1-x533.google.com (mail-ed1-x533.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::533]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1D4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4TS3Tl3GkPz454s for ; Sat, 3 Feb 2024 20:02:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: by mail-ed1-x533.google.com with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-55f0b2c79cdso3888380a12.3 for ; Sat, 03 Feb 2024 12:02:51 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20230601.gappssmtp.com; s=20230601; t=1706990568; x=1707595368; darn=freebsd.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=RsFzUx/8EjB01Ton6l+Ru7UwUTCGVVCdFkAgQYtXhCM=; b=MptXhQ0vmArOUAIKjv2vspdzXwMzf5lddoNKEtzxF0X5NWC1z42XG5P+OKc28Hujok 0poMlENJgHgyx7fVrbkC0bO6XE7oM5D2UVf3irk76jgFP8QDjZX0bRb7yqLY6jpAA5RX 8fF6z0Ca78QzbJQ7fVeiv/7HcWDSwRF/xwsE8aG721P39USJUHh/ry5GW80Wh2wJOSTs N4V4gBOtVH5z15QEvOHl/pAb0O5//eFcWBVp8zOGoUKCRTFEMqxHDNKaZU6YiCNEDlkm z2Q1XLne6+ldqmagURe52aQrEJLWWG3DSq2RRK4Vl6QRI3thQFNUlgwbQCYOeQUNf3v6 UBTQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1706990568; x=1707595368; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=RsFzUx/8EjB01Ton6l+Ru7UwUTCGVVCdFkAgQYtXhCM=; b=A5I95YAmbuyRrBUmA8GgbWKxv8SfEud71sRge1gKrGES4rCMGsRtEU1dd5w3ZKJMht aGTp8RjkcY/nJPbJquxrK/HJHiVwnNS+hV+4UuwQo0cPMMICDETHAjQ5F7zIUKsSWwzP 4Fikhu2rA7LDtZxYb0wRMJKH4fENieZtYuj7dp8is0B85R4ijnrlgBB3gRiNJvRYyi7q oT82244FBql0dx+ORzsBB26xXJ74AN2pp9M+oZ3NAWzSahNp9ess5ph9V1eXND2YTaYt 1fqIxOPyyglriPH1LkLnK3Qigq3po+6l4r1wXn4EGa1oQGx+d6HOfPKpv7sEGaeZ+Hcx CjrA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YyFvUOrgtl/1je+8HIgTDnHIhPeNzs/FcDThBecRk9YDkYSqmx3 zog/exjViCjQeVJrMgDEbcGdfdDKd1H//olRoYfS74sais+MSYpzuttoRbChq4POrLPEtOKkkVL PHRzlv5UHWtFsFB0STYek7Tyt2QZKZtcqvdUkcg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGSqu3XQTZ/GE4dYS2oyFadPQtcMdclt5+ezu5OlcjtS6z2UpLxvMSaq8FboI1FatEy/xSJq+tlgLBUFGxs/20= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:896:b0:55f:f13b:d372 with SMTP id e22-20020a056402089600b0055ff13bd372mr2000153edy.21.1706990568508; Sat, 03 Feb 2024 12:02:48 -0800 (PST) List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-arch List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <202402030136.4131aQIM010980@gitrepo.freebsd.org> <70o6oo0s-r8nn-7r92-5s6r-6so586rpo1o1@SerrOFQ.bet> In-Reply-To: From: Warner Losh Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2024 13:02:13 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: git: ce348fe5cfc3 - main - amd64 & i386: enable VIMAGE in MINIMAL To: Kristof Provost Cc: Gleb Smirnoff , "Bjoern A. Zeeb" , =?UTF-8?Q?Mina_Gali=C4=87?= , Warner Losh , src-committers@freebsd.org, dev-commits-src-all@freebsd.org, dev-commits-src-main@freebsd.org, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000078abad06107fb69b" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4TS3Tl3GkPz454s X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US] --00000000000078abad06107fb69b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Feb 3, 2024 at 12:07=E2=80=AFPM Kristof Provost wr= ote: > On 3 Feb 2024, at 11:58, Gleb Smirnoff wrote: > > We just need at least one supported working kernel without VIMAGE (and > > probably other useful stuff, that is not useful to everyone). > > > Strong agree on this point. > > There are enough users out there who do not want VIMAGE (well, at least > one, but it=E2=80=99s enough of one to care), so we need to ensure it kee= ps > building. It=E2=80=99s very easy to forget about the non-VIMAGE case, and= if we > don=E2=80=99t have any kernel configs without we=E2=80=99re going to keep= breaking it and > not noticing until you run into it. > > That was even raised in the GitHub review. > MINIMAL is not a CI image to test things. It's a replacement for GENERIC that loads what one can. Its contents need to reflect that. That's why I did not give the issue weight. However,we likely need at a minimum LINT-NOVIMAGE like we have LINT-NOINET today. That's easy enough to arrange, and I'm happy to do it to cover the CI aspects of things. It kinda shows, though, that we may want to have more kernels with carefully thought out options to account for the different needs. I'll try to write up my thoughts on what they should be. I'm leaning to have an vm vs embedded vs server split as well as a load-it-all vs compile-it-in split, regardless of what they are named. And there's some base for all three and then extensions from there (vm and embedded may be the same, and server may be a superset of those two). So I'll take an action item to come up with a concrete proposal for these things, along with good definitions so people enhancing the system in the future have good guidance on wher to do that. Warner --00000000000078abad06107fb69b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Sat, Feb 3, 2024 at 12:07=E2=80=AF= PM Kristof Provost <kp@freebsd.org= > wrote:
On 3= Feb 2024, at 11:58, Gleb Smirnoff wrote:
> We just need at least one supported working kernel without VIMAGE (and=
> probably other useful stuff, that is not useful to everyone).
>
Strong agree on this point.

There are enough users out there who do not want VIMAGE (well, at least one= , but it=E2=80=99s enough of one to care), so we need to ensure it keeps bu= ilding. It=E2=80=99s very easy to forget about the non-VIMAGE case, and if = we don=E2=80=99t have any kernel configs without we=E2=80=99re going to kee= p breaking it and not noticing until you run into it.

That was even raised in the GitHub review.

MINIMAL is not a CI i= mage to test things. It's a replacement for GENERIC that loads what one= can. Its contents need to reflect that. That's why I did not give the = issue weight. However,we likely need at a minimum LINT-NOVIMAGE like we hav= e LINT-NOINET today. That's easy enough to arrange, and I'm happy t= o do it to cover the CI aspects of things.

It kinda shows, though, that we may want to have mo= re kernels with carefully thought out options to account for the different = needs.=C2=A0 I'll try to write up my thoughts on what they should be. I= 'm leaning to have an vm vs embedded vs server split as well as a load-= it-all vs compile-it-in split, regardless of what they are named. And there= 's some base for all three and then extensions from there (vm and embed= ded may be the same, and server may be a superset of those two). So I'l= l take an action item to come up with a concrete proposal for these things,= along with good definitions so people enhancing the system in the future h= ave good guidance on wher to do that.

Warner
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