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Date:      Thu, 28 Oct 1999 08:52:43 -0400
From:      Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com>
To:        Don <don@calis.blacksun.org>
Cc:        Bernd Walter <ticso@cicely.de>, Alfred Perlstein <bright@wintelcom.net>, freebsd-fs@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: Journaling
Message-ID:  <19991028085243.24656@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.05.9910272149360.36049-100000@calis.blacksun.org>; from Don on Wed, Oct 27, 1999 at 09:59:23PM -0400
References:  <19991027173720.06226@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com> <Pine.BSF.4.05.9910272149360.36049-100000@calis.blacksun.org>

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On Wednesday, 27 October 1999 at 21:59:23 -0400, Don wrote:
>>> [snipped in original: claim that Vinum wasn't ready for production]
>>
>> Oh, does it?  What problems have you seen?  You'd better tell all the
>> people who are using it in production, too.
>
> Ok can we stop with the insults? The point of this thread is research not
> attacks on anyone. I have seen problems with disk mirroring using vinum in
> which attempting to synchronize a new disk after a previous had failed
> caused a kernel panic and left me with no way to recreate the failed disk.
> This may have been fixed, however. At the time the problem was
> reproduceable and I did not have the time to investigate further.

If a tree falls in the forest, and nobody hears it, did it fall?

As I said above: "What problems have you seen?".  A kernel panic (is
there any other kind?) is a matter you should report.  We *have* had
problems in Vinum; as you say, this isn't necessarily the case at the
moment.

>> UFS on System V uses the System V partition table, which allows 15
>> partitions.  I don't know what use even 7 are, which is probably one
>> of the reasons nobody has done anything about it.
> Actually I simply run everything off of the root partition and allocate
> all of the space to that.
>
>> Yes, this is the usual result of using too many file system
>> partitions.
>
> No this is a result of a mistake in estimating the size that a given
> partition should be. This includes /var and / (although perhaps I
> should simply have a single file system mounted off of /)

Indeed.  But my crystal ball is broken, and I can't find anybody to
repair it.  How do *you* forsee the future?  In any case, even if you
can, what benefit do you have from a maze of twisty little file
systems, all different?

>> I'm not sure what you're talking about here, but the best thing I can
>> think of is Vinum.
>
> Vinum is a volume manager. I dont see why it keeps coming up in reference
> to a journaled file system.

It doesn't.  You were talking about partitioning, which also has
nothing to do with a journalling file system.

On Wednesday, 27 October 1999 at 22:06:30 -0400, Don wrote:
>>> Ok nevermind :) Either way vinum is not up to snuff. It still has a way to
>>> go before it can be used in a production environment.
>>
>> Oh, does it?  What problems have you seen?  You'd better tell all the
>> people who are using it in production, too.
>
> Perhaps you should read the vinum known bugs page.

What was that you were saying about insults above?

> That list is far too long for a production application.

Ah.  Could you define the correct length?  "0" is not an answer.

> If you dont feel it is too long then by all means use it. When I
> stop seeing the words "data corruption" and "kernel panic" on the
> known bugs page then I will use vinum.

Maybe you should read the context.

Greg
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