From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 1 06:05:22 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 265A116A407 for ; Wed, 1 Nov 2006 06:05:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lavalamp@spiritual-machines.org) Received: from mail.digitalfreaks.org (arbitor.digitalfreaks.org [216.151.95.158]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD62A43D49 for ; Wed, 1 Nov 2006 06:05:21 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from lavalamp@spiritual-machines.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.digitalfreaks.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5188718010; Wed, 1 Nov 2006 01:05:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.digitalfreaks.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.digitalfreaks.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 14638-11; Wed, 1 Nov 2006 01:05:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.1.13] (c-67-165-78-215.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [67.165.78.215]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-MD5 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.digitalfreaks.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CDB61800F; Wed, 1 Nov 2006 01:05:11 -0500 (EST) From: "Brian A. Seklecki" To: Andrew Reilly In-Reply-To: <20061101025904.GA30503@duncan.reilly.home> References: <20061031175606.P63561@arbitor.digitalfreaks.org> <20061101025904.GA30503@duncan.reilly.home> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1162361104.4169.525.camel@compulsion> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6-5.1.100mdk Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2006 01:05:04 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.1 Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, netbsd-users@netbsd.org Subject: Re: Hardware Console Redirection X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2006 06:05:22 -0000 > Why is that a problem? The BIOS doesn't use the console once > the kernel has booted. Because it becomes a burden always having to customize your install/upgrade media/kernels/bootblocks to use redirection. Dell knew that; that's why they made the DRAC4 with a virtual VNC-based console redirection. Then the bungled it with the DRAC5 when they re-wrote it to depend on ActiveX. Also because the hardware vendors could follow the PC Weasel model and not utilize a serial port visible to the OS. With NetBSD its just one or two flags to installboot(8) to change the options, with the only exception being that we seem to lack the ability to set the com console _speed_ when in *interactive* mode at boot(8) ; of course it can be set from the installboot(8) flags. With FreeBSD, you have to jump through a ring of fire to get it to work right. You've got three stages of bootblocks to recompile/configure. boot.config. device.hints. etc. etc. Then the kernel has to be told in-src, recompiled. Then the getty. In either case, forget about sysinst/sysinstall to install off of stock install media. All very possible with the Weasel. You alway have to consider the the 3:30 AM incident where you're fumbling though a stack of CD-Rs for a Fixit or Live CD and you have to wonder if you re-mastered the disc with a boot image containing your custom serial enabled kernel with the right baud and com port (as you can see below). > What serial console semantics do the bootblocks get wrong? None. I'm just suggesting that for simplicity it would be nice not to have to make them aware. > What sort of reset do you need? I don't really understand the > question, I'm afraid. Reset my attitude I guess >:} I'm pining for the days of sparc systems and a unified serial console server. When TLS says: "Of course; it is a BIOS feature, and NetBSD does not use the BIOS for console I/O.", I tend to think of Sun how writing to the OBP firmware console is not dissimilar from the NetBSD kernel output. It would be nice to think x86 has caught up over the last 15 years. Anyway, for the record: The old PC Weasel Console Redirection: Phoenix BIOS: http://digitalfreaks.org/~lavalamp/cp/displayimage.php?album=16&pos=23 NetBSD 2.0 Sysinst: http://digitalfreaks.org/~lavalamp/cp/displayimage.php?album=16&pos=24 Bios Summary: http://digitalfreaks.org/~lavalamp/cp/displayimage.php?album=16&pos=22 --- Dell PE750 Console Redirection: http://digitalfreaks.org/~lavalamp/cp/displayimage.php?album=16&pos=21 Compare where DRAC VNC (IE6 only) VGA redirected console output continues and the DRAC5 virtual "COM2" serial redirection halts: http://digitalfreaks.org/~lavalamp/cp/displayimage.php?album=16&pos=27 http://digitalfreaks.org/~lavalamp/cp/displayimage.php?album=16&pos=25 vs.: http://digitalfreaks.org/~lavalamp/cp/displayimage.php?album=16&pos=29 Dell PE2950 Settings (BIOS nicely drawn via Serial/ANSI): http://digitalfreaks.org/~lavalamp/cp/displayimage.php?album=16&pos=28 ~BAS