From owner-freebsd-ppc@freebsd.org Tue Dec 22 06:50:40 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-ppc@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E27024B5AA2 for ; Tue, 22 Dec 2020 06:50:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marklmi@yahoo.com) Received: from sonic315-8.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (sonic315-8.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [98.137.65.32]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4D0Rmv267Bz3N5X for ; Tue, 22 Dec 2020 06:50:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marklmi@yahoo.com) X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1608619836; bh=NMe6g8dnN2XnHKrkiPnmy3LgUj/GFJILA+f35zJlgFM=; h=Subject:From:Date:To:From:Subject; b=oZogYHsh47yh2Kzj2J3F3+6Be2GKxNqvnKXGa+X0oJIEdVNfAi04Lz9qWVR4NHf+5EUmc3OH7cjXpbRYJGVc72TGNzknYBGAdjioHqtGHlcqodTbUsorlqWNl2jIoG1Um2abZORsSW6+zabwOqQrYKFOd4hxhvhhwN91hxq+OER8TBCqkeilhUuC+TZygzjYL+KRjx8ENeYRUr9DAhddYnq55lFKNjCsXFkSEdQH7P9336n1SPrbbHUlkFWx7mtXWctBGaT/+Hqsihme2QIh2JHGuc16kN2EfYQV4dVVYRJIGHn3T95BTtYM1utB9q77zgvjjF8leZaqNy6zidHTcQ== X-YMail-OSG: sYAfTqcVM1n0c3wtIEYZkmaYcAfi3tBz.jRj9hU3o8.3LZ5OXHFyThuqduyroy0 v.lsUUUv0QY0gqVMjjTdjfw.j4Dnpj8xb4zQwXaThi2FPmjlT8HkzHneuX3FntohqxkTu_Lne_fl sjXwoQ5YCZDKHGWEnDKxMzVaLnec9bOXvH.RFhK9EMEPM3NAqiDstW2mkxyGKe2URGvr_2JeRmqh iXLjKrGmhErco05iLsfqtjjfhxYnv9Bqyqpvn5kOuUfD2uq50QpCJIs4qCqDjvndbaTu5D9VhSm4 2lrUFSCUepW7gT11LZQwZD2PRSWhXlXK29x2Syw7zTgjyy.uu186nV3tMR0RdIVLa3XuEGWlzotN IECuxic2JaGpql_xFlkxQp0Un5hRYM9pgR3GDlQa6k_3unr8o.RjjIAYUkZVV_nzdKNhQcIdmIbM BLeLNlXXN.3Q7mDM4fZ4CfihmAMo3Qci4NVhf4rww9HLOctW.ape3qFoXqJXprPhheJHtOZQm4hM 9ycQTrreocokUWfxnrCqOaIHaGHZ15joLbA2wwq1F_LbdwsEGFqwGgzc2mx6bCzHht1cmSHGqkj2 5mnbumNhjjBeNcRz4UkGsZ.w1UGbBIRr8.IbWg9Lxa0Kxg0rfkaCk8HqFX.K0aJEz17mtOMJ6WZz bD76N6pfhtkycXMRF1U8T2RG9517GovxZRtqTWypTQ0pEe6HT3E5mHB8IZPIEfuhDw18_Vrl6tTZ 7w4uwBcQhRKjnPB95B299PtlJ_zoTRr1sJSmUxeoGGkX9xSoqU3VvJGrJBgc9ai8g83OVjN3sYyT zTACE4Hg_MSQqm7iZLv6PksJjxOcf2j7OlZUtENLftl09gKjgMGXKUyz7yVmwStqNXu58n_wWVZj inJafb3_dFBtvSW58hqIVpMXX84LBjensOcoHzvvi9GW8uYz7r3mcP.W3YXDVL7VcrKKbTYH6nce MbPr9mNQsGy2q41yVWh6aj1Y1HmyGZvcGqHEtcdyKKyCJh1dvTVfVa1DyRB3tN3AT9zr43dbFxSj licx8qg35GLFkv4bhSqVbEMtU8azU8hZpyHirUe6IKW_yIi83d1JMAE6ce_E2NxSgEgqDoKrkkF. 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PowerMacs have been problematical for as long as >> I've been trying FreeBSD on them (FreeBSD 10+ basically). That = includes >> examples of of install time problems. >>=20 >=20 > Well, I had to give it a try : >=20 > = https://beta.genunix.com/freebsd/ppc64/power_mac_quad_freebsd_13_current_1= 7_dec_2020_fail.png >=20 > So that is the most recent installer image there. Not sure what fails. >=20 > I had this old powermac running FreeBSD 12.x and CURRENT last year. I > even chased after a pile of little bugs and recall working with Justin > Hibbits to get boot going smoothly with all the fans being correct etc > etc. Things have changed a lot in a year. I guess a Power9 server is > really needed. Or maybe Power8 perhaps. >=20 >> I'm not aware of any unpatched, modern FreeBSD that well-operates any = old >> PowerMac that I have access to (64 bit or 32 bit). But I've not done = a >> from-scratch install (via a installer image) in years so I do not = know what >> the issues are with that stage these days. My understanding is folks >> have been disabling SMP support so only 1 thread run in order to = avoid some >> of the problems for multi-socket/multi-core PowerMacs. >=20 > Right. I thought we had that fixed last year? For https://reviews.freebsd.org/D23376 I never figured out how to do what Justin was after in his comments (simplified summary). No one else did the work either, as far as I know. I still run with my patches for the issue. > Bug 233863 - Various PowerMac G5 models may require = kern.smp.disabled=3D1 > and must set usefdt=3D1 which causes net interface reorder >=20 > https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=3D233863 Most of my other PowerMac-operation related patches are in attachments to the above, although they have not been updated there as FreeBSD has progressed so some might not apply directly now. (What I've got does build.) > also >=20 > Bug 238730 - r349985 on ppc64 IBM 970MP PowerMac G5 = sys/dev/bge/if_bge.c > must move the device_get_devclass(bus) >=20 > https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=3D238730 The above one looks to have been checked-in as head -r350025 . > Bug 233579 - ppc64 r341455 will panic on boot with usefdt=3D1 > https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=3D233579 Some of my patches in 233863 got usefdt=3D1 to work more generally. I use it. I even made it the default in my environment and instead have a means of disabling it from the loader. Making it work in part involved allowing some Apple OpenFirmware violations to not break the operation. (So far as I know the code still handles lack of the violations correctly.) I'll note that 233579 is classified as closed-fixed but has a later note from you indicating that it was failing. The status was never changed to track that so any quick look suggests the problem is/was gone. > I think you and I have gone back and forth on these and others and for = a > while there we had it working fairly well. With ZFS also. Yep: we had lots of exchanges. (While I experimented for a time years ago with ZFS, I use UFS. So that part I do not know about.) >>=20 >> Other notes: >>=20 >> As far as I know, 32-bit powerpc for old PowerMacs still has the = kernel >> gradually zeroing out user-space pages, even for = single-socket/single-core >> 32-bit PowerMacs. So I run 32-bit via a chroot on a 64-bit system: = the >> 64-bit kernel does not have this specific problem. (I seem to = remember >> that there was a different boot failure last I tried 32-bit, but I do = not >> remember any detail at this time.) >>=20 >> There are other kernel problems as well (64-bit and 32-bit), but I'll = not >> get into them here. >>=20 >=20 > Well I guess I have to pick my battles here and maybe move onwards = with > the RISC-V goodness wherein I have been in touch with Mitchel Horne = and > I have CURRENT running really well with ZFS. Well, on qemu of course. > However I can not do a buildworld. That jsut fails in the LLVM/Clang > world and it looks to be a LLVM/clang bug. Regardless the old old = Apple > PowerMac may be a doorstop now. A good looking shiney door stop but = not > really workable. Even Debian Linux fails to install these days. >=20 >> The best of the old PowerMac's that I've had access to finally ended = up >> with overheating from the cooling system not working correctly any = more. >=20 > I had not seen that here with mine and I have four of them. I take = parts > from one to the other just to keep one running well. If you give up on them before things quit working, you might want to = send them to Justin or to someone else that likely could do significant = PowerMac work at some point if they had direct access for testing and such (and they happened to feel like working on such for a bit on occasion). >> The previously next-best does not have all the memory slots working. = That >> is the last 2-socket/2-cores-each G5 that I have access to. So one of >> these day's I'll be joining others that no longer have access to = such. >=20 > I feel that day is coming soon for me also. >=20 >> With the degree of my time preferences, I'm not sure if I'd use the = old >> PowerMacs without the faster one to do builds on. (I tend to cross >> build the systems, only self-hosting on rare occasion. But ports >> I build on the Fastest PowerMac that I have access to.) >>=20 >=20 > Well if there was such a thing as a reasonable serial console on these > things then I would easily grant you ssh access to a KVM switch and to > the serial console. Debugging anything via camera and the graphical > console is a real pain. I'm very familiar with camera and graphics console use. I touched ddb to automatically run an internal script (no paging) before it got to the prompt (unable to take input). I'd adjust the script and rebuild to get different information that would fit on screen. Lots of attempts to repeat failures to get more information. (The original problem that I looked into was intermittent.) If the PowerMac was getting far enough along, I did manage to use the FireWire access some in some later activities. I learned from that to not believe where things looked to have stopped on screen when things hung up: FireWire access showed more after what the screen displayed, indicating a later failure point. (No claim FireWire's access/reporting lasted to the end.) > Thank you for the detailed reply and I will flip a coin or two and = maybe > just retire these shiney old monsters. They use a pile of power also = :) >=20 > That just leaves the Sun SPARC servers in my life as the most stable > long term reliable monsters that I have. Sadly Oracle makes like hell > and not much runs on the newer Fujitsu machines that I have. Looks = like > some investment in RISC-V may be reasonable for next year. >=20 =3D=3D=3D Mark Millard marklmi at yahoo.com ( dsl-only.net went away in early 2018-Mar)