From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sat Jan 5 18:30:17 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31B55141A5D7 for ; Sat, 5 Jan 2019 18:30:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from smtp-out-so.shaw.ca (smtp-out-so.shaw.ca [64.59.136.139]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "Client", Issuer "CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 53C6C8D31E for ; Sat, 5 Jan 2019 18:30:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from spqr.komquats.com ([70.67.125.17]) by shaw.ca with ESMTPA id fqi2guLo382Ycfqi3gSFRA; Sat, 05 Jan 2019 11:30:14 -0700 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=NNSrBHyg c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=VFtTW3WuZNDh6VkGe7fA3g==:117 a=VFtTW3WuZNDh6VkGe7fA3g==:17 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=3JhidrIBZZsA:10 a=heTAvR70AAAA:8 a=YxBL1-UpAAAA:8 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=dPRBdm7T7n0FhSEKSKAA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=UrJ2pwYPfabwj1STkZPu:22 a=Ia-lj3WSrqcvXOmTRaiG:22 a=IjZwj45LgO3ly-622nXo:22 Received: from slippy.cwsent.com (slippy [10.1.1.91]) by spqr.komquats.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 942854509; Sat, 5 Jan 2019 10:30:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from slippy.cwsent.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slippy.cwsent.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id x05IU9iw062304; Sat, 5 Jan 2019 10:30:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from slippy (cy@localhost) by slippy.cwsent.com (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) with ESMTP id x05IU8Jh062301; Sat, 5 Jan 2019 10:30:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com) Message-Id: <201901051830.x05IU8Jh062301@slippy.cwsent.com> X-Authentication-Warning: slippy.cwsent.com: cy owned process doing -bs X-Mailer: exmh version 2.8.0 04/21/2012 with nmh-1.7.1 Reply-to: Cy Schubert From: Cy Schubert X-os: FreeBSD X-Sender: cy@cwsent.com X-URL: http://www.cschubert.com/ To: Wojciech Puchar cc: Cy Schubert , Hackers freeBSD Subject: Re: Strategic Thinking (was: Re: Speculative: Rust for base system components) In-Reply-To: Message from Wojciech Puchar of "Sat, 05 Jan 2019 16:07:06 +0100." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2019 10:30:08 -0800 X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfDX7Fw1E/3wWkDfvKObIK1H3MEAsAaCzVVS5p8XccpnA3/DTroJOcBZWpWI/6E9vKQtrxwpbm2SuoXtMirl1Nc6lzcIHyMirr5ht/T0SRcrM8o9KDkMs 5RqCSd4wqvuYw6B8vM/ktbYXaBKJZrX2K2Ky60wMhpCJnutz1b/fWcOPHsTHVOFj8nMFJh5ZqTmPr3SWVhmaFXVHowBJgB398HLxwe1PfgrdM/zaw+GOeW9R X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 53C6C8D31E X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.31 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[5]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[17.125.67.70.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.11]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; HAS_XAW(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: spqr.komquats.com]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.94)[-0.944,0]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:6327, ipnet:64.59.128.0/20, country:CA]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-1.66)[ip: (-3.75), ipnet: 64.59.128.0/20(-2.47), asn: 6327(-1.97), country: CA(-0.09)]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[139.136.59.64.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2019 18:30:17 -0000 In message , Wojciech Puchar wr ites: > >>> A) FreeBSD needs to become a platform that can host current and > >>> evolving virtualization technologies. > >>> > >>> B) FreeBSD should be able to play in the container space similarly to > >>> Linux. Unfortunately I believe that this horse has left the barn and it > >>> may be too late. Then again maybe there is something we can redeem. > >> > >> C) Make FreeBSD like others. So why making FreeBSD? > > > > Because we offer some technologies the others do not. Unfortunately > > inferior and incompatible approaches (similarly: VHS vs BETA, Blue Ray > > vs HD) have left us on the outside. Try porting Kubernetes to FreeBSD. > no need to. > > > > > The technologies used today are more than just fads. They are building > > blocks onto which future technologies will be built. > > > and this is really sad. Sure. What is really sad is that the world has moved on. I would love to still do kernel programming on the IBM mainframe. That's not possible. There used to be half a dozen IBM mainframe datacentres in my home town and two in the city I currently live in when I moved here. Now there are none in both places. We can cry the blues that life isn't what it used to be or we can move on. One person I once worked with attempted suicide because his beloved mainframe here was no more. Old technologies aren't as relevant as they used to be. Nostalgia for days gone by isn't going to make those days come back. Only supporting old hardware and only maintaining old paradigms will announce, FreeBSD is dying. Do you want that? Get over it and move on. > > >> > >> Not everyone needs the same. > > > > Niche. We should be more than simply a desktop O/S (which BTW I use as > > my primary desktop) and we should be more than a simple bare metal O/S. > > Simple bare metal O/S is what is really needed. They all do that. What else can we bring to the table? One of the questions to be answered is where do we want to be in five years? Stuck in the past? This sub-thread was meant to have us consider importing rust in the bigger scheme of things. My point is, before we do anything, like add a shiny new feature or cull some old code, does this align with where we want to be in two or five years? -- Cheers, Cy Schubert FreeBSD UNIX: Web: http://www.FreeBSD.org The need of the many outweighs the greed of the few.