From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 13 21:44:55 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AA1F16A4CE for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2004 21:44:55 +0000 (GMT) Received: from smtp2.server.rpi.edu (smtp2.server.rpi.edu [128.113.2.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFA1A43D45 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2004 21:44:54 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from drosih@rpi.edu) Received: from [128.113.24.47] (gilead.netel.rpi.edu [128.113.24.47]) by smtp2.server.rpi.edu (8.13.0/8.13.0) with ESMTP id i6DLiqIO010513; Tue, 13 Jul 2004 17:44:54 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: drosih@mail.rpi.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <25787.1089753241@critter.freebsd.dk> References: <25787.1089753241@critter.freebsd.dk> Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 17:44:52 -0400 To: "Poul-Henning Kamp" From: Garance A Drosihn Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . canit . ca) cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CVSUP and 5.2.1 RELEASE X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 21:44:55 -0000 At 11:14 PM +0200 7/13/04, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: >In message , Garance A Drosihn writes: > >>"make world" performs a sequence of operations which are expressly >>wrong. Why we have a WRONG target is a better question than how >>much work it would be to change the documentation. > >This is news to me. >I have been involved in FreeBSD since we created the ncvs repository >ten years and two months ago and barring minor mistakes here and >there "make world" has performed the correct sequence of operations >since then. You know as well as I do that this target is dangerous for a standard upgrade of a system. In many places we recommend the order of: make buildworld make buildkernel make installkernel REBOOT AND TEST THE KERNEL make installworld "make world" only does buildworld and installworld. Yes, that is sometimes the right thing to do -- for a FEW developers in a FEW situations. And those developers could continue with their work even if the target was called "zworld" instead of "world". But MOST users are bringing their system from one-point-in-time to some newer-point-in-time, and those users often find a few holes in their feet if they use this target. And when that happens, we chide them and call them various names, all so a few developers can save an occasional keystroke. This seems rather anti-social to me. I really don't see what is gained by this. Not for the project as a whole, at least. Sure, the twenty developers who regularly use this target get to feel pretty special, but we keep claiming that FreeBSD has "perhaps millions of users". If only a hundred users get their foot blown off by this target, then I really think the project as a whole would be better off if we simply renamed it. -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@gilead.netel.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or gad@freebsd.org Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute or drosih@rpi.edu