From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Wed Apr 20 16:32:30 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BD61B16BD2 for ; Wed, 20 Apr 2016 16:32:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from slw@zxy.spb.ru) Received: from zxy.spb.ru (zxy.spb.ru [195.70.199.98]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4D8451F84 for ; Wed, 20 Apr 2016 16:32:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from slw@zxy.spb.ru) Received: from slw by zxy.spb.ru with local (Exim 4.86 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1asv3H-000KX4-Hv; Wed, 20 Apr 2016 19:32:31 +0300 Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2016 19:32:31 +0300 From: Slawa Olhovchenkov To: Paul Mather Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [CFT] packaging the base system with pkg(8) Message-ID: <20160420163231.GC67390@zxy.spb.ru> References: <5DBC1E44-E562-4A5B-9DD9-47C1C62AFB9D@gromit.dlib.vt.edu> <20160420145416.GB67390@zxy.spb.ru> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: slw@zxy.spb.ru X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on zxy.spb.ru); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2016 16:32:30 -0000 On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 11:57:47AM -0400, Paul Mather wrote: > On Apr 20, 2016, at 10:54 AM, Slawa Olhovchenkov wrote: > > >> A packaged base is just another way of describing the state of the > >> system. People on mailing lists will still be able to help people > >> fix their problems, but they'll just use different information to > >> pinpoint the precise components affected. > > > > How identify this systems? By 800-line lists of package versions? > > > In my experience, troubleshooting usually proceeds from the > description of the symptoms. So, if someone says, "I just updated > and Sendmail has stopped sending e-mails," or "I just updated and I > can no longer SSH into my system," then the logical question is to > ask what versions of the packages they're running that pertain to > those binaries. In other words, you start at the symptom and work > outwards from there. In my experience, it's not necessary to have > an exact inventory of a system to be able to solve a problem with > it. I see you point. Now try this, for some example, semi-hypothetical. Some time ago we have troubles with sshd, fetchmail and other software after r296462. pkg don't show any useful for versions of sshd/fetchmail/etc because root cause will be breakin ABI in libcrypto. For useful information pkg need to show version of quering package and version of all depened packages. Is this allow now by simple command? Also, how to naming individual packages? For port software we have released version, for STABLE -- rollover release. Currently used naming is useless, using svn revision of top-level dir usefull only for two-package case. Using svn revision of individual dirs need addtional patches and addtional rules: /usr/src/sys/modules/aio # svnlite info Path: . Working Copy Root Path: /usr/src URL: svn://svn0.eu.freebsd.org/base/stable/10/sys/modules/aio Relative URL: ^/stable/10/sys/modules/aio Repository Root: svn://svn0.eu.freebsd.org/base Repository UUID: ccf9f872-aa2e-dd11-9fc8-001c23d0bc1f Revision: 295564 Node Kind: directory Schedule: normal Last Changed Author: jhb Last Changed Rev: 185878 Last Changed Date: 2008-12-10 23:56:19 +0300 (Wed, 10 Dec 2008) /usr/src/sys/modules/aio # less Makefile # $FreeBSD: stable/10/sys/modules/aio/Makefile 185878 2008-12-10 20:56:19Z jhb $ .PATH: ${.CURDIR}/../../kern KMOD= aio SRCS= vfs_aio.c opt_vfs_aio.h vnode_if.h opt_compat.h EXPORT_SYMS= aio_init_aioinfo aio_aqueue .include i.e. actual revision is max(vfs_aio.c opt_vfs_aio.h vnode_if.h opt_compat.h) or even max(deps(vfs_aio.c opt_vfs_aio.h vnode_if.h opt_compat.h)) Is this posible? > A tool like pkg makes it easy to know which package is associated > with a given file and also which packages that package depends upon > and which are dependencies of it. So, pkg makes it relatively > painless to zoom in or out from a given symptom (i.e., binary or > library that might have changed). I don't believe this is possible > in the current FreeBSD setup. This is a huge gain in functionality. You are lost may point. I am not against of pkg, I am just try more planing before implementation. Changing in distribution scheme is very expensive.