From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jan 8 23:28:25 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D05E16A4CE; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 23:28:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from sccrmhc12.comcast.net (sccrmhc12.comcast.net [204.127.202.56]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B282C43D46; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 23:28:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from underway@comcast.net) Received: from localhost.localdomain (12-230-74-101.client.attbi.com[12.230.74.101]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with ESMTP id <20040109072821012009oqp0e>; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 07:28:21 +0000 Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) i097QhYS024360; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 23:26:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from underway@comcast.net) Received: (from jojo@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id i097QcKR024359; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 23:26:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from underway@comcast.net) To: "M. Warner Losh" References: <1073533525.650.59.camel@localhost> <20040108.105920.09775084.imp@bsdimp.com> <9td69t98g4.69t@mail.comcast.net> <20040108.213907.112623273.imp@bsdimp.com> From: underway@comcast.net (Gary W. Swearingen) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 23:26:37 -0800 In-Reply-To: <20040108.213907.112623273.imp@bsdimp.com> (M. Warner Losh's message of "Thu, 08 Jan 2004 21:39:07 -0700 (MST)") Message-ID: <35u1357fbm.135@mail.comcast.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.1002 (Gnus v5.10.2) XEmacs/21.4 (Portable Code, berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 09 Jan 2004 05:39:24 -0800 cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Where is FreeBSD going? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2004 07:28:25 -0000 "M. Warner Losh" writes: > In message: <9td69t98g4.69t@mail.comcast.net> > underway@comcast.net (Gary W. Swearingen) writes: > : > : And yet the "Legal" page carries a claim of copyright for "The FreeBSD > : Project" > > It is a psudonymous work by The FreeBSD Project. Are you saying that "The FreeBSD Project" is a pseudonym for many of individuals, or what? And why does it matter with respect to whether an extra-legal entity may claim copyright ownership? > : I've not seen a US statute about > : false copyright claims, but I think it would be less risky to say "all > : intellectual property is owned by its owners", in the manner of some > : trademark statements. > > No, the above is perfectly legal under US and International Copyright > law. Well, I know that it's legal to omit one's own copyright claim, but for some organization to lay claim to copyrights owned by you or me seems very wrong. It's a violation of BSD-type licenses and a violation of the concept of attribution that is behind the licenses. A legal entity has made the false claim of copyright ownership, whether that's an informal organization or the person who wrote the claim with a pseudonym. I'm not sure how you or I have been damaged, but I supose that a lawyer could find a way. What is your theory of why it's legal? I'm really interested. Are you saying it's just another way of saying "copyrights are owned by individual members of the informal FreeBSD project"? That seems legal enough, I guess, but it's a quite different statement, IMO. And as it doesn't follow the form giving by US copyright law I wonder if it is sufficent legal notice in the USA, if you plan to sue infringers for the most money possible. > For profit or not is irrelvant, given that there's no legally > incorporated entity for the project. I'm fairly sure that members of informal organizations can be held liable for the acts of other members in the USA. For example, under the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations ("RICO") Act. And even if all members could not be held liable, persons directly responsible for the wrongdoing could be. Example wrongdoings are not paying taxes on the profit or not reporting the profit. But I admit that this issue seems unlikely to cause problems as long as someone pays taxes on any obvious profits other than copyright licenses.