From owner-freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 28 05:04:25 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C333123C; Wed, 28 Nov 2012 05:04:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from user.vdr@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ie0-f182.google.com (mail-ie0-f182.google.com [209.85.223.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7199D8FC08; Wed, 28 Nov 2012 05:04:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ie0-f182.google.com with SMTP id s9so16451818iec.13 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2012 21:04:24 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=gWJ/TWe5hD4hjwRpdWEDrlkW57NUcrMN3KmVKmXFZOw=; b=EQea9w+r2ywrG6lV0yYBHxNqE2CyCiYo8j7u8BLjM4OO1wjjzHF1JKpvJB01Woi1Pw 6xyBD0J6WlOLJujL8qrQVlWpn3XdPRETWk4TWeWIl479TeQsA8QVON6ZmfhCfex9O2Ni bIBT6xXyELeKxPYZ0FwfCyj8KN42anmECnI66e8qPoDWJ05Z+hOZjZDTawchRAKwrb/a HvvNb9VysU6Tge1lqCS78qNzmE2wRXjdI27M0vuQsjqGeVy4bF6tQAJ40jQLzv0qkcM0 4cQAh8SJ+5+62KMtoK4qnaxU6xUsYxsGwpte1Zsyutwrvb3ITrm6+SkRxj8be/veMbRj kBYg== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.42.74.73 with SMTP id v9mr15618327icj.37.1354079064612; Tue, 27 Nov 2012 21:04:24 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.111.71 with HTTP; Tue, 27 Nov 2012 21:04:24 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <50B568E7.5070305@rawbw.com> References: <20121127231130.106340@gmx.com> <50B568E7.5070305@rawbw.com> Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2012 21:04:24 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Support for "old" hardware (was:Re: kern/148741: [sound] Headphones are deaf (do not work) on Lenovo ThinkPad X300) From: VDR User To: Yuri Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Cc: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org, Alexander Motin , Dieter BSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2012 05:04:25 -0000 On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 5:29 PM, Yuri wrote: >> You're being very dramatic and over-exaggerating. Also, Unix along >> with all of its spawn has gone through significant change over the >> years so if you're implying what people use today is the same thing >> they were using in the 70's then that's being blatantly dishonest. >> >> Maybe in a perfect world all hardware would be supported forever. But >> there comes a time when, for example, maintaining a driver becomes >> counter-productive because there simply isn't enough of a user-base to >> justify the resources spent doing so. Hardware evolves, software >> evolves, computers evolve -- if you don't want to evolve with it then >> continue to use the hardware & software from whatever era in computing >> history of your choosing so long as you understand the burden of >> supporting that stuff may ultimately rest on your shoulders. > > AC'97 is for ex. in Lenovo ThinkPad T60 that was still sold in 2007. It is > entirely possible that the same chipset was used in later models and maybe > is still in manufacturing. > Quick search on http://www.bsdstats.org/bt/devices/class/04/subclass/01.html > reveals that quite a few systems still use AC'97, particularly "82801AA 8xx > Chipset AC'97 Audio Controller" is listed as used 631 times and in fact is > the most frequently used particular type of the audio device listed on BSD > stats website. My comments were meant to be taken in a general sense, hence why nothing specific was mentioned. There are plenty of examples of old hardware still in use, but that isn't really what I was addressing. > I only wish more people shared their hardware with BSD stats. > Also this T60 may be obsolete by the latest and greatest standards, but is > still a very capable system, can easily run BSD or Linux and would be > totally sufficient for someone who only needs to browse the web and check > e-mail (read 95% of people). Yes, indeed. We passed the tipping point along time ago where computers became `over-powered` in regards to most users needs. I fully believe in and support pc recycling. However, you do get to a point where it becomes unreasonable to continue to support old hardware within new software because it's simply not a good use of resources to do so. Should a person spend their valued time wrestling to keep old hardware working? I don't know a whole lot of devs who say yes to that question. There's a reason support for old stuff decays or flat out gets thrown in the trash. If you choose to drive a 20 year old car, you've got to accept the fact that there will likely be some issues using it.