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Date:      Fri, 12 Jun 1998 22:52:50 +0000 (GMT)
From:      Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>
To:        lyndon@ve7tcp.ampr.org (Lyndon Nerenberg)
Cc:        scrappy@hub.org, freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: SASL References
Message-ID:  <199806122252.PAA23412@usr01.primenet.com>
In-Reply-To: <199806121846.MAA15378@ve7tcp.ampr.org> from "Lyndon Nerenberg" at Jun 12, 98 12:46:20 pm

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> I don't have the ACAP references handy. The
> proposed SMTP SASL interface (AUTH command) is described in the I-D
> draft-myers-smtp-auth-*.txt.

I like this (a bit), but I hate the use to which it is supposedly going
to be put by Qualcomm:

	http://www.imc.org/draft-gellens-on-demand

Which is basically a workaround for ISP brain damage that can only
be implemented by non-brain-damaged ISPs.  It's a tautology.

This a very annoying.  The same functionality for dynamic IP addresses
polling a server for queued mail is available through a correctly
configured split dynamic DNS and the existing ETRN verb.


The real pain here is that the ISP will have to correctly configure
things in both instances, and the draft suggests a kludge for an
authenticated method for turning the connection around ("ATRN")
to no real benefit beyond what a competent ISP would provide in
the non-kludged case.  Either they have a clue or they don't; it's
a binary value in this case.

8-(  8-(  8-(  8-(  8-(  8-(  8-(  8-(  8-(  8-(  8-(  8-(  8-(  8-(

I would be much happier if they just documented best known practice,
instead of complicating the hell out of SMTP for no good reason.

If they have to complicate the hell out of SMTP, the least they could
do is not use the semantics they've chosen.  Why add a new verb, ATRN,
instead of using the existing verb, TURN?  To get the additional (and
optional and ill-thought-out) domain argument(s)?  The semantics of
TURN can be redefined in the presence of the AUTH to get this behaviour
(should someone want to bogify their SMTP server unnecessarily).
Everyone denies TURN as it is, anyway, so it's a non-verb.

And the brain damage of domain arguments themselves: why require the
450 response if there is no mail queued for the domain(s)?  The 450
response dictates implementation, or it dictates a very large amount
of work, depending on how queues are stored.  It's stupid, and it's
going to take as much time anyway, so the server might as well just
turn around immediately, and if it has no mail for the domain(s), as
a client it can send a "QUIT" verb to the client-cum-server.

At the very least, they should redefine the response:

	"450 shove off you compute intensive PIG!"

So that I can say that I'm not going to traverse my whole queue
for another hour (insert configurable interval here) if I didn't
find anything the last time you bothered me to run my whole queue
for no good reason.

I sent mail to Randy a long time ago on this, but haven't heard
anything back.  I was much more polite in that mail.  8-(.


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

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