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([2607:fb90:82a9:a99e:b851:5f32:3f1d:bd9]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id v70sm104177842pfa.152.2019.01.05.10.38.29 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 05 Jan 2019 10:38:29 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: Re: Strategic Thinking (was: Re: Speculative: Rust for base system components) From: Enji Cooper X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (16C104) In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 10:38:27 -0800 Cc: Cy Schubert , Igor Mozolevsky , Hackers freeBSD Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <0EB517DF-376E-435A-B24D-A4964D0F148F@gmail.com> References: <201901041951.x04Jppo2029486@slippy.cwsent.com> To: Wojciech Puchar X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: CB3A98D7B6 X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=Rixn8yyl; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of yaneurabeya@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::632 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=yaneurabeya@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.98 / 15.00]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.68)[-0.680,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2.3.6.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; IP_SCORE(-0.79)[ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-2.19), asn: 15169(-1.67), country: US(-0.08)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2019 18:38:33 -0000 On Jan 5, 2019, at 07:07, Wojciech Puchar wrote: >>>> A) FreeBSD needs to become a platform that can host current and >>>> evolving virtualization technologies. >>>>=20 >>>> B) FreeBSD should be able to play in the container space similarly to >>>> Linux. Unfortunately I believe that this horse has left the barn and it= >>>> may be too late. Then again maybe there is something we can redeem. >>>=20 >>> C) Make FreeBSD like others. So why making FreeBSD? >>=20 >> Because we offer some technologies the others do not. Unfortunately >> inferior and incompatible approaches (similarly: VHS vs BETA, Blue Ray >> vs HD) have left us on the outside. Try porting Kubernetes to FreeBSD. > no need to. Actually, not having Docker/Kubernetes support makes it more difficult to ri= de the CI/distributed system wave, requiring FreeBSD to reinvent the wheel t= o do CI, and force various groups to write their own homegrown distributed s= ystems infrastructures instead of leveraging existing technologies. >> The technologies used today are more than just fads. They are building >> blocks onto which future technologies will be built. >>=20 > and this is really sad. Not really. It=E2=80=99s a sign of maturity as most things now run on a =E2=80= =9Ccloud based=E2=80=9D infrastructure, or small embedded OSes running embed= ded Linux (not FreeBSD). >>> Not everyone needs the same. >>=20 >> Niche. We should be more than simply a desktop O/S (which BTW I use as >> my primary desktop) and we should be more than a simple bare metal O/S. >=20 > Simple bare metal O/S is what is really needed. Not really. As Cy pointed out, in order to ensure that FreeBSD is well-suppo= rted by large companies (Dell, Facebook via WhatsApp, Juniper, and Sony were= some of the large contributors over the past couple years, along with a hos= t of other smaller storage companies), so it continues to exist in a healthy= way, it needs to be dynamic and customizable to meet the needs from embedde= d development up to large-scale distributed systems. A number of these compa= nies have considered switching away from FreeBSD to Linux because FreeBSD is= niche (see Microsoft with Hotmail, Yahoo, etc). Let=E2=80=99s not give deve= lopers willing to make the switch more ammunition to do so. Cheers, -Enji=