From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Jun 4 09:27:21 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DBFF332417 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 2020 09:27:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) Received: from sonic313-20.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (sonic313-20.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com [77.238.179.187]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49d0mS1gHQz4Fhp for ; Thu, 4 Jun 2020 09:27:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) X-YMail-OSG: R0V7a8UVM1kC9IY73b.JvkBS.dw0rg9aHwMNKAha3.zUbZ7PRlx6CIZ0YLiNTur MuSik_kFZGNLyQbOiH_oAAnUDXIP2.zyGtwpa2Z9neExs1B7GqjtgAJlifnidmCmqt9s8boYMxUz HABrm2HLwHwc8jLyTtttFCE11ID38mdTA88hjSFPsUnF.2K6wNIk28bAxQoHfaEhQ9z2y.Qx4Xb2 rFOnhsLHgL2qc1kFWJluCyVobQ9J0AwuM4WZzIddTGCmcWClZxNuvkuTj2unu8u068bb6Mz8SEN0 Vo30mYwf3X1SAe_cjhoDcBaust1URFEpkUmzXbCC38wWuNV2LrkNZEimF40f5bzSYIO4lfaRb7xs rSLkgL21H_Jz7h9caRdJmI2XgG5vl1S3_Ufg0499fL1bU.TDb1JaMVGCjNvIAq7Bwr0aYki9oIWg cD03JiPcgY_mQqoOjd8JgUCBW7reghJX0.VHxb5NZ67m3lsDnoX5q7qLkr.bQRIdcQiRM2cGhTwQ whBBRJWHvqXrPesumvEvU59tVdgS05C7iKsnAbnn3YVg2F8cB5ep3ECiUFEFP5LHEMTBnNIW4q9K Mj256jJyPkrW3uni2.BfIxdfaQy4CqZGdLqad3.zzKPEJXyM_CrV7xJITAHr1FGNjWjtOE1yhTFi J9kkeZTC7EPgwdW7ZK8usXy4uoG_o8HnS8kU7Z_qh4Lg2Rc8q.v10orEb4aYGV4MCOiY2GyKbYXK bXXJDz6lvXjMBNfkHNPLXxbaffu9NaZbuftUBAjPE_BTcZVymhf2XuZ3bvsgzefwkFn5wCgC17eQ VepAC5u6Bt_ByyuiESKDiqFzNFSHshcSf7UVmhSk1bSDYxNCBWOo8SKgd74O0977E6ZqUJf4EVO8 x_jQ5ZHSD9uViCFB8V6bnr7KnFrXbqi1w6vxj6JlRdAOtCqhV5948mTIzSMp50RHfxO0yZzLJPGb KOkhP_pwKartdnHWh2LFlbVwKxg6AtLvDrC0Ww7LrYvJuIwh5Hbej8YOGreL_THva.Km3phdGLYg yJhouxSfnMJ78LW4tW3A9PPva.HJ1Lhk0jFKTRvadsssL6w0I3dEVVVr2R51FkA1S8oBQp0_hTAM Fdz7uex7e_ehk1sueR4VfwvBwVCrWnSDX58SNE1cN1eHU.z7zYYOVGvXfN0wh8.kQZi_GTsSL8f2 YyPJidtLo3nquE.lCZWryDlK08KXVuqpDtXNihj5dYShTReC_ge7O4UoF3aTzqCpe.r45lMZyx5t P7gJtnY1XdQMD7gjjna4WAJgiktRYcO9BUBqKLfC7XgA8OH1jfZOmT3DMTCkcGjsCJ5DZXq7ZBXP wEp7yoPVb0I6u1oKOby9j_Ja1MSSnnSF8HfrsIhT7dN3d13gzRyBpXXkRkOzJ1Pw2QDxIfn.bXww zFxgUt8_XMrEkYg-- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic313.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Thu, 4 Jun 2020 09:27:18 +0000 Received: by smtp425.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (VZM Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID d5eb15ffbc81d03ffad32629bf0363e5; Thu, 04 Jun 2020 09:27:16 +0000 (UTC) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2020 11:27:21 +0200 From: Ralf Mardorf To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Mininal skills Message-ID: <20200604112721.519dbdfb@archlinux> In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Claws Mail (linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49d0mS1gHQz4Fhp X-Spamd-Bar: --- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.53 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[rocketmail.com:s=s2048]; XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.01)[-1.010]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[rocketmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[rocketmail.com,reject]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[77.238.179.187:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.04)[-1.040]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.99)[-0.994]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:34010, ipnet:77.238.176.0/22, country:GB]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[77.238.179.187:from] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2020 09:27:21 -0000 On Thu, 4 Jun 2020 10:02:29 +0100, Matthew Seaman wrote: >I applaud your determination, and I also think it's pretty perverse for >people in *what is a FreeBSD channel* to tell enthusiastic newcomers to >go away and use some other operating system. That's really not >helpful. It's not perverse, it's a sane alternative to gain UNIX alike basic skills on a bare metal install, instead of running Windows or MacOS and install FreeBSD as a guest in a virtual machine. However, for learning purpose running FreeBSD as a guest, as well as running Ubuntu on bare metal are alternatives one could consider, instead of running FreeBSD on bare metal. The reason for this is missing hardware support! By hook or by crook, soon or later the OP will run into hardware issues. The hardware industry does not care that much about BSD or Linux. In some cases they are at best willing to semi-support Linux, while they usually don't care about FreeBSD at all. Ignoring this is unworldly, if a completely hardware and software newbie does ask how to gain computer knowledge. In the last decade it didn't become better, hardware support for BSD and Linux became more worse than it was years back. The best OOTB hardware support is provided by user-friendly Linux distros, most likely by Ubuntu. In the end most enthusiastic newbies anyway migrate to a proprietary operating system. I tried to avoid to point this out, since it might cause fear, uncertainty and doubt, but I have to do it, if you call it perverse to consider a valid pointer to avoid issues.