From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Tue Jun 20 20:42:04 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B3F2DA1F8A for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2017 20:42:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from slw@zxy.spb.ru) Received: from zxy.spb.ru (zxy.spb.ru [195.70.199.98]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4A5D97352F; Tue, 20 Jun 2017 20:42:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from slw@zxy.spb.ru) Received: from slw by zxy.spb.ru with local (Exim 4.86 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1dNPZj-000KuG-6V; Tue, 20 Jun 2017 23:16:35 +0300 Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2017 23:16:35 +0300 From: Slawa Olhovchenkov To: Emmanuel Vadot Cc: Joel Dahl , Jeremie Le Hen , Baptiste Daroussin , Michael Gmelin , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: rtools were deemed almost unused 15 years ago... Message-ID: <20170620201635.GC18123@zxy.spb.ru> References: <20170620111136.fz5ovfa4imm3p4hj@ivaldir.net> <20170620155954.150dedc5@bsd64.grem.de> <20170620171744.GA72667@ymer.vnode.se> <20170620202217.8ddf0bae0d3dbe7063549006@bidouilliste.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20170620202217.8ddf0bae0d3dbe7063549006@bidouilliste.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: slw@zxy.spb.ru X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on zxy.spb.ru); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2017 20:42:04 -0000 On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 08:22:17PM +0200, Emmanuel Vadot wrote: > On Tue, 20 Jun 2017 19:17:44 +0200 > Joel Dahl wrote: > > > On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 03:59:54PM +0200, Michael Gmelin wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Tue, 20 Jun 2017 13:11:37 +0200 > > > Baptiste Daroussin wrote: > > > > > > > On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 12:25:46PM +0200, Jeremie Le Hen wrote: > > > > > Hey folks, > > > > > > > > > > I remember when I was still barely out of my teenagehood, people > > > > > were mostly using ssh/scp while rtools (rsh, rlogin, ... for the > > > > > youngsters) were left in place as a courtesy for legacy production > > > > > systems still relying it on them. > > > > > > > > > > Fast forward to 2017 (so yes, 15 years later), stack-clash [1] > > > > > sorely reminds us that suid binaries are an attack surface. I don't > > > > > even need to mention that it's a healthy engineering practice to > > > > > remove unused code, both from a maintenance and security > > > > > perspective. > > > > > > > > > > Therefore, I hereby propose to remove rtools from the base system. > > > > > I acknowledge this will likely cause troubles for a handful of > > > > > people who are still relying on it for good or bad reasons. But the > > > > > flipside is that the attack surface of millions of FreeBSD > > > > > installed out there will be reduced. > > > > > > > > > > The proposed roadmap is: > > > > > - disable from the build on head and let it soak for one month > > > > > - remove rtools from the base. > > > > > > > > > > What do you guys think? Any preferred color for the bikeshed? :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [1] https://www.qualys.com/2017/06/19/stack-clash/stack-clash.txt > > > > > > > > Yeah! > > > > > > > > Is telnetd part of your list? > > > > > > As long as the telnet(1) client stays in I'm all for it. > > > > +1. Please keep the telnet client. It's something I expect be part of the base > > system utilities. I use it all the time. > > > > -- > > Joel > > Time to learn nc(1), I'm still fighting to use nc(1) insteal of telnet > (1) because of musle memory but removing it will help me make the > switch. > > I honestly don't see any valid reason to keep telnet in the tree. Don't talk what we need to learn, please. PS: nc don't emulate telnet protocol.