From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Wed Aug 31 13:36:56 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72951BC992F for ; Wed, 31 Aug 2016 13:36:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from mail.soaustin.net (mail.soaustin.net [192.108.105.60]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.soaustin.net", Issuer "StartCom Class 2 IV Server CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 45FF18C4; Wed, 31 Aug 2016 13:36:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from lonesome.com (bones.soaustin.net [192.108.105.22]) by mail.soaustin.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D08C447C; Wed, 31 Aug 2016 08:36:43 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2016 08:36:42 -0500 From: Mark Linimon To: "K. Macy" Cc: Erich Dollansky , Andrea Brancatelli , Fernando Herrero =?iso-8859-1?Q?Carr=F3n?= , freebsd-stable Subject: Re: Benchmarks results for Compilers on FreeBSD 11 Message-ID: <20160831133642.GA25574@lonesome.com> References: <20160822120215.GV22212@zxy.spb.ru> <20160823110159.GU18643@e-new.0x20.net> <20160824045558.18c86764@X220.alogt.com> <3234db29c228879cc473deec0b09568c@schema31.it> <20160826132059.63c23ee5@X220.alogt.com> <20160828060601.08ea91a8@X220.alogt.com> <20160830074656.18bfaf05@X220.alogt.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2016 13:36:56 -0000 I'll demur just a bit on your points. On Mon, Aug 29, 2016 at 08:51:02PM -0700, K. Macy wrote: > "we need a compiler to build the system" (a prebuilt package does that > just fine), Well, yes, for a tier-1 machine; and one that is connected to the network. > I can't speak for the whole universe of users, but I think it's safe > to say that most users are not power users who individually configure > ports tailored to their needs. We've certainly tried to provide a migration path away from that, but I don't think anyone has statistics about how far along we are. IMHO we can't assume it's 100%, or maybe even 80%. > I think my experiences on Ubuntu [...] are illustrative. A number of years ago Ubuntu and FreeBSD had barely overlapping audiences: end-users and developers. With all the improvements to pkg and tier-1 packages I hope that is changing -- the goal of expanding the reach is why I supported all the changes I saw being made. But for me an attraction has always been "you can build it out of the box", even if I rarely do it (e.g. I am not working in the kernel/driver area), mcl