From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 18 23:24:46 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBDC9106564A for ; Fri, 18 Mar 2011 23:24:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: from cpoproxy2-pub.bluehost.com (cpoproxy2-pub.bluehost.com [67.222.39.38]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 8EB9A8FC1F for ; Fri, 18 Mar 2011 23:24:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 19839 invoked by uid 0); 18 Mar 2011 23:24:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box543.bluehost.com) (74.220.219.143) by cpoproxy2.bluehost.com with SMTP; 18 Mar 2011 23:24:46 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=apotheon.com; h=Date:From:To:Subject:Message-ID:Mail-Followup-To:References:Mime-Version:Content-Type:Content-Disposition:In-Reply-To:User-Agent:X-Identified-User; b=Vkn8Z1w+dLpUo657OZDy8vo0eeOHkoCjZ8kSeozfT+RC7AthpyKChMYJAIC7GJZYrvXuVm6HdRcJ/ngNsCoDTcqvKXtjBHEzSNovuHBQtV35XoJVx58wP034NtVZ0wum; Received: from c-24-8-180-234.hsd1.co.comcast.net ([24.8.180.234] helo=kukaburra.hydra) by box543.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Q0j2C-0005rV-OX for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Fri, 18 Mar 2011 17:24:45 -0600 Received: by kukaburra.hydra (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Fri, 18 Mar 2011 17:13:01 -0600 Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 17:13:01 -0600 From: Chad Perrin To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20110318231301.GA21827@guilt.hydra> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <20110318213641.GA37871@lpthe.jussieu.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="dDRMvlgZJXvWKvBx" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20110318213641.GA37871@lpthe.jussieu.fr> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i X-Identified-User: {2737:box543.bluehost.com:apotheon:apotheon.org} {sentby:smtp auth 24.8.180.234 authed with ren@apotheon.org} Subject: Re: HAL must die! X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 23:24:46 -0000 --dDRMvlgZJXvWKvBx Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 10:36:41PM +0100, Michel Talon wrote: > Chad wrote: > > > > Everybody who thinks it's a good idea (by way of analogy) to write > > command line utilities that default to not letting you specify any > > options at all, and if you use one option to do something non-default > > you have to specify *all* options even when the specification is > > exactly the same as the default -- raise your hands. >=20 > In fact i am just now writing something which does that: either mostly > automatic, or with full "expert" options if you know what you are > doing. There is no real middle ground, in my opinion, and i just don't > like the Unix style commands, with tons of options and unscrutable man > pages. I think this Unix approach has not led to considerable adoption, > generally. To come back to HAL, i have been usually happy with HAL. You > just have to know that if you want to modify some simple X > configuration (typically change the keyboard language) you have to do > it in a HAL config file, not in xorg.conf. The only problem is that > the HAL config files are in xml crap, not in usual form. In fact the > main HAL problem is a documentation problem, like for many other softs. > How many new features of FreeBSD are correctly documented presently?=20 Wait -- what? Really? Let's say your application has the following options with defaults: foo: one bar: two baz: three qux: four Let's say someone wants qux to be five instead of four. Are you saying you're writing your application to *force* them to specify *all four* configuration settings, even when three of them are default? Are you further saying you're doing this because you think it's a good idea from a UI standpoint, and not just out of laziness? --=20 Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] --dDRMvlgZJXvWKvBx Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.14 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAk2D5v0ACgkQ9mn/Pj01uKUnEACg+p1aTnaFhkIyg9TBr0do3lwn MxgAnRyL+Hph3vpJHQvIl3WK1YjaRjup =kI65 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --dDRMvlgZJXvWKvBx--