From nobody Sun Jan 21 21:36:56 2024 X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4TJ6BQ4JTlz57njn for ; Sun, 21 Jan 2024 21:37:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from robert@rrbrussell.com) Received: from wout1-smtp.messagingengine.com (wout1-smtp.messagingengine.com [64.147.123.24]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4TJ6BP6B7xz47wy for ; Sun, 21 Jan 2024 21:37:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from robert@rrbrussell.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=rrbrussell.com header.s=fm2 header.b=WrnwQTs7; dkim=pass header.d=messagingengine.com header.s=fm3 header.b="Y /l+bTv"; dmarc=pass (policy=quarantine) header.from=rrbrussell.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of robert@rrbrussell.com designates 64.147.123.24 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=robert@rrbrussell.com Received: from compute4.internal (compute4.nyi.internal [10.202.2.44]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4120D320030E for ; Sun, 21 Jan 2024 16:37:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute4.internal (MEProxy); Sun, 21 Jan 2024 16:37:00 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rrbrussell.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type:content-type:date :date:from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :references:reply-to:subject:subject:to:to; s=fm2; t=1705873019; x=1705959419; bh=HsMldDoS7uHwTcyYPxbgQAJKxdCrOaGR4uPyXz/GEzE=; b= WrnwQTs7JnOO+Iakq9zBbLzMN5Xc3stX2sfPpYLoKTvx6E/AHopAN5loDIzrJb0/ WQjnHrO0KKipDtVrXRoNlr4ZTsIJpNwxtejtijTFhg8hb+t4BUSFVeftJyIgjmQ/ J5BFlipriVLZI3d3x0OW16OApCpMRLZ/00xLN/N3n8ypRF1jpRfAu5GlqONWn7nT e46RUICMonfaYa9cO9+GdEZMChBZoEzqk5KvmsFNUB1CJ24TTIdf9c3t3krF7d5/ BH/ivLZtjUDuGSIWVPxsawbxTu8HET2nOb4oz9HwtUuYueK62nHl/EOqq28VNKSy Sh240mzmWOhtZTqJgUN35g== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :content-type:date:date:feedback-id:feedback-id:from:from :in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :reply-to:subject:subject:to:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy :x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm3; t=1705873019; x= 1705959419; bh=HsMldDoS7uHwTcyYPxbgQAJKxdCrOaGR4uPyXz/GEzE=; b=Y /l+bTvpBz5+ff8xt1ByImAoSoBmfUzOOYNFLmATSKTC/Qn0ISxajtULmszopkew1 bvV/P2j6JKc5HsAwWRx9bwuIhlH3bg1qxOAS+AUNjW0XCrPNDFb/0kG+pVC3S9pq HOEaVthgnVjzQUFC4DFoSeNhvjoJB7EBThXv8tRlJaPGSRlJEnOE+qkJ9bSKBNID h93NApfbwIZ/6xjzbl0F919Ro0xqXimFnqXXM9ZGvjBy6QcAIqCudQuJ6aD/uKLG hO1JU7qMZF7teMwpg22sHHZAPtb93xDpmxuO9w2skoTeMUaNlrMtDixa501T+quZ SJwE+bLSI48FaJp2UIGDg== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvkedrvdekgedgudehtdcutefuodetggdotefrod ftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfgh necuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecunecujfgurhepfffhvffukfgjfhfogggtgfesth ejredtredtvdenucfhrhhomhepfdftohgsvghrthcutfdrucftuhhsshgvlhhlfdcuoehr ohgsvghrthesrhhrsghruhhsshgvlhhlrdgtohhmqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpeduhf ejieekkeekieehgfeghefhjeegledvledvtdetgeevfeefvdeiffekvddtgfenucevlhhu shhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpehrohgsvghrthesrh hrsghruhhsshgvlhhlrdgtohhm X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: ie421460a:Fastmail Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA for ; Sun, 21 Jan 2024 16:36:59 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2024 15:36:56 -0600 From: "Robert R. Russell" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The Case for Rust (in the base system) Message-ID: <20240121153656.050752c4@venus.private.rrbrussell.com> In-Reply-To: <80529ee4-acc3-456c-8aa9-7fd7ebbf0803@m5p.com> References: <01519AEB-2725-492F-BC17-A7A40166D437@FreeBSD.org> <80529ee4-acc3-456c-8aa9-7fd7ebbf0803@m5p.com> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.19.1 (GTK+ 2.24.33; amd64-portbld-freebsd14.0) List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spamd-Bar: ----- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.10 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; DWL_DNSWL_LOW(-1.00)[messagingengine.com:dkim]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[rrbrussell.com,quarantine]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[rrbrussell.com:s=fm2,messagingengine.com:s=fm3]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:64.147.123.24]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[64.147.123.24:from]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[robert]; ASN(0.00)[asn:29838, ipnet:64.147.123.0/24, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROMTLD(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[rrbrussell.com:+,messagingengine.com:+] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4TJ6BP6B7xz47wy On Sat, 20 Jan 2024 12:58:25 -0500 George Mitchell wrote: > On 1/20/24 12:34, Dimitry Andric wrote: > > [...] > > However, I think this discussion is going in the wrong direction: > > why keep attempting to build all these huge toolchain components in > > our base system at all? [...] > > +1. > I speak from ignorance on the cost/benefit ratio of rust. So perhaps > someone can tell us: what is the size of the rust runtime > library(ies)? Do we continue to want FreeBSD to support small > systems? Should we ponder dividing the base system into the > lightweight part and the heavier weight part? Honestly, I am not > trying to sow dissension, but I do suggest a serious discussion. > -- George Rust defaults to static linking. However, it doesn't blindly link everything in either. Excluding systems with a non volatile storage capacity measured in megabytes Rust will fit in just fine.