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[77.37.180.76]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 2adb3069b0e04-595803b7a67sm3303985e87.43.2025.11.17.10.57.36 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 17 Nov 2025 10:57:36 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2025 21:57:33 +0300 From: Vadim Goncharov To: Minsoo Choo Cc: Warner Losh , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Subject: BE (Was: What's the plan for powerpc64 in FreeBSD 16) Message-ID: <20251117215733.65553140@nuclight.lan> In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.21.0 (GTK+ 2.24.33; amd64-portbld-freebsd13.4) List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-arch List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4d9H7D35pjz42Bv On Mon, 17 Nov 2025 18:29:20 +0000 Minsoo Choo wrote: > I was thinking about this as well since the discussion on armv7. I think > big-endian powerpc should be removed from releases from FreeBSD 16 for the > following reasons. > > - Big endian usage is not used widely anymore. Even most POWER systems on > linux run on little-endian, and most Linux distros like RHEL only provides > little-endian and not big-endian. > - As FreeBSD is a complete operating system, if the powerpc is causing > issues not only in kernel but also for utilities and ports due to lack of > developers and hardware, there is no need to maintain them. Linux is a > kernel, so Linux developers can maintain kernel only for powerpc64be and > other developers take the responsibility of implementing libraries and > utilities. FreeBSD cannot take this approach, and if the cost is bigger than > the benefit, we should remove it. > - This also applies to deprecation of 32-bit platforms, but there is no need > to consider big endian compatibility unless we have valid reason. So far, > all the major platforms we support are little-endian or bi-endian, and even > bi-endian platforms like aarch64 and POWER mostly run on little endian > operating systems. Is there a new architecture or even ongoing discussion of > them that will be based on big endian (or 32-bit) where FreeBSD can shine? > If not, there is no need to consider compatibility for future architectures. This does not mean that such will never arise in the future, especially given that big-endian is better; and there were such rumors/tries for RISC-V. > - I think we should've dropped powerpc bi-endian support when we dropped > armv6 as powerpc predates armv6. I've seen some old armv6 hardware few > times, but I've never seen big-endian only powerpc hardware in my life. I'm > still thinking on which position to take for the armv7 discussion, but I'm > definitely leaning towards deprecation for powerpc64be's case. > > I think we should've dropped powerpc bi-endian support when we dropped armv6 > as powerpc predates armv6. I've seen some old armv6 hardware few times, but > I've never seen big-endian only powerpc hardware in my life. I'm still > thinking on which position to take for the armv7 discussion, but I'm > definitely leaning towards deprecation for powerpc64be's case. > > -- WBR, @nuclight