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Fri, 14 Apr 2023 23:27:58 +0000 Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2023 23:27:57 +0000 (UTC) From: Paul Pathiakis To: Mario Marietto , Tomek CEDRO Cc: "questions@freebsd.org" , infoomatic Message-ID: <1662553879.4100206.1681514877194@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: References: <20230329053443.6ADA6B6AFED5@dhcp-8e64.meeting.ietf.org> <34b4b76e-1c41-4cfb-9e86-856f01e8abc9@app.fastmail.com> <6002f636-310b-a9fd-b82f-346618976983@timpreston.net> <20230412150350.12f97eb2c9dd566b8c8702d2@sohara.org> <1535315680.2770963.1681309684072@mail.yahoo.com> <543289768.3317542.1681394425362@mail.yahoo.com> <887947753.4080046.1681511775374@mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Docker List-Id: User questions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_4100205_1778170838.1681514877193" X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.21365 YMailNorrin X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Pyt0b3pX4z3Gkr X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36646, ipnet:66.163.184.0/21, country:US] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N ------=_Part_4100205_1778170838.1681514877193 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Probably the best thing I saw that showed Linus' lack of understanding of = proper engineering=C2=A0was when he was talking on an announcement stage wi= th people from IBM, HP, etcand someone in the audience stated/asked:=C2=A0 = "I've been doing a code review of your kerneland I'm a bit worried.=C2=A0 I= see a lot of places where POSIX standards have not been implementedor inco= rrectly implement.=C2=A0 Will you be correcting the Linux kernel to POSIX c= ompliant?" After he said "No.=C2=A0 I don't feel I should be hampered by standards ove= r creativity (or some such)" Those company reps literally dragged him off the stage. Paul On Friday, April 14, 2023 at 04:21:14 PM PDT, Tomek CEDRO wrote: =20 =20 On Sat, Apr 15, 2023 at 12:46=E2=80=AFAM Mario Marietto wrote: > So,let me understand : docker images aren't compatible with FreeBSD. Imag= ine that the FreeBSD jails will be not compatible with Linux. Wow,this is t= rue interoperability. Mario, (Free)BSD is Unix derivative and thus standard compliant, look at sockets, IPv4, IPv6, Jails, ZFS, etc. It was Linux folks who invent things that are only compatible with Linux and only until new fancy pancy Linux only revelation is introduced then those solutions are not even Linux compatible anymore. "Progress by Enforced Changes"^TM. It was Docker that did not take other OS into consideration at design stage. It was SystemD that did not take other OS into consideration at design stage, and now lots of application follow that systemd core dependency making them hardly portable to any other OS. What about kernel API changes with every minor release that started around 2.4.11 (I was using Linux 2.0.36 / ~1998 .. 2.4.12 / ~2007)?=C2=A0 Look at DRM mess it introduced to graphics driver world. How would you call that interoperability / portability / long term maintenance? Linux by design is self-incompatible. Do you really want us to to follow that "fashions" with a life span shorter than a yogurt? There are reasons for people avoiding Linux. --=20 CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info =20 ------=_Part_4100205_1778170838.1681514877193 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Probably the best thing I sa= w that showed Linus' lack of understanding of proper engineering 
was when he was talking on an annou= ncement stage with people from IBM, HP, etc
and someone in the audience stated/asked:  "I've been doi= ng a code review of your kernel
and I'm a bit worried.  I see a lot of places where POSIX standards h= ave not been implemented
or inc= orrectly implement.  Will you be correcting the Linux kernel to POSIX = compliant?"

After he said "No.  I don't feel I shou= ld be hampered by standards over creativity (or some such)"

Those company reps literally dragged him off the stage.

Paul

=20
=20
On Friday, April 14, 2023 at 04:21:14 PM PDT, Tomek CED= RO <tomek@cedro.info> wrote:


On Sat, Apr 15, 2023 at 12:46=E2=80= =AFAM Mario Marietto wrote:
> So,let me unders= tand : docker images aren't compatible with FreeBSD. Imagine that the FreeB= SD jails will be not compatible with Linux. Wow,this is true interoperabili= ty.

Mario, (Free)BSD i= s Unix derivative and thus standard compliant, look
at sockets, IPv4, IPv6, Jails, ZFS, etc.

<= /div>
It was Linux folks who invent things that are only co= mpatible with
Linux and only until new fancy panc= y Linux only revelation is
introduced then those = solutions are not even Linux compatible anymore.
= "Progress by Enforced Changes"^TM. It was Docker that did not take
other OS into consideration at design stage. It was Syste= mD that did
not take other OS into consideration = at design stage, and now lots of
application foll= ow that systemd core dependency making them hardly
portable to any other OS. What about kernel API changes with every
minor release that started around 2.4.11 (I was using L= inux 2.0.36 /
~1998 .. 2.4.12 / ~2007)?  Loo= k at DRM mess it introduced to graphics
driver wo= rld. How would you call that interoperability / portability /
long term maintenance? Linux by design is self-incompatible. D= o you
really want us to to follow that "fashions"= with a life span shorter
than a yogurt?

There are reasons for people a= voiding Linux.

--
=
CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info
=
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