Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2023 23:27:57 +0000 (UTC) From: Paul Pathiakis <pathiaki2@yahoo.com> To: Mario Marietto <marietto2008@gmail.com>, Tomek CEDRO <tomek@cedro.info> Cc: "questions@freebsd.org" <questions@freebsd.org>, infoomatic <infoomatic@gmx.at> Subject: Re: Docker Message-ID: <1662553879.4100206.1681514877194@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <CAFYkXjnkv-UKBcVe3Wz=y9RLkMJrpE0%2Be3Pw_Vfq7v4CKKEg_g@mail.gmail.com> References: <20230329053443.6ADA6B6AFED5@dhcp-8e64.meeting.ietf.org> <34b4b76e-1c41-4cfb-9e86-856f01e8abc9@app.fastmail.com> <CA%2B1FSihVrJ8cZ4ZU6mMr0sKJsZ98V4fh2vpDLugw7MGj-%2BEBPg@mail.gmail.com> <CA%2B1FSijL50mQ-HveBA4HZeNkSoaORv=aty-15nNLzn9amzY_nw@mail.gmail.com> <6002f636-310b-a9fd-b82f-346618976983@timpreston.net> <CA%2B1FSigV_pPwVW%2BDd8WZYGcNQVt7%2BYOcsnJFoRhS6jL5A636pg@mail.gmail.com> <20230412150350.12f97eb2c9dd566b8c8702d2@sohara.org> <CA%2B1FSihVPCQ6tp8u=aqnLyyOPpCMrnhYGcC8bCUgRbFHTdY5sA@mail.gmail.com> <1535315680.2770963.1681309684072@mail.yahoo.com> <CAHieY7RFe0P85twcs1NiiAvTTr4oGPJEtXEkufsXswQt3ECGvg@mail.gmail.com> <CA%2B1FSiiCG-iugAbSoNC2r5WXCJvgi6pj3jG74jCwukhNtb_XGA@mail.gmail.com> <CADGo8CXsCYCOi%2Bwk2ED7zpJdFQDhynzD0u1qFDUFS3RveS8wOg@mail.gmail.com> <CA%2B1FSij3VXqsGs5ZTUv%2B9Q2wJ18yCqVqgHAyGfCWc0C%2Bxi=KXw@mail.gmail.com> <543289768.3317542.1681394425362@mail.yahoo.com> <CA%2B1FSiicxR1hbd=LO8%2BPMyv7=OmXZGa3Uco1p-rRP3pe1Yf6hA@mail.gmail.com> <f59385ad-a467-5e24-3c17-72c17d3b5aca@gmx.at> <887947753.4080046.1681511775374@mail.yahoo.com> <CA%2B1FSijAYbWDktOEbcAuAF8P-fTK5k_bDd0_isEKTUEAD-%2B2Ug@mail.gmail.com> <CAFYkXjnkv-UKBcVe3Wz=y9RLkMJrpE0%2Be3Pw_Vfq7v4CKKEg_g@mail.gmail.com>
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Probably the best thing I saw that showed Linus' lack of understanding of =
proper engineering=C2=A0was when he was talking on an announcement stage wi=
th people from IBM, HP, etcand someone in the audience stated/asked:=C2=A0 =
"I've been doing a code review of your kerneland I'm a bit worried.=C2=A0 I=
see a lot of places where POSIX standards have not been implementedor inco=
rrectly implement.=C2=A0 Will you be correcting the Linux kernel to POSIX c=
ompliant?"
After he said "No.=C2=A0 I don't feel I should be hampered by standards ove=
r creativity (or some such)"
Those company reps literally dragged him off the stage.
Paul
On Friday, April 14, 2023 at 04:21:14 PM PDT, Tomek CEDRO <tomek@cedro.=
info> wrote: =20
=20
On Sat, Apr 15, 2023 at 12:46=E2=80=AFAM Mario Marietto wrote:
> So,let me understand : docker images aren't compatible with FreeBSD. Imag=
ine that the FreeBSD jails will be not compatible with Linux. Wow,this is t=
rue interoperability.
Mario, (Free)BSD is Unix derivative and thus standard compliant, look
at sockets, IPv4, IPv6, Jails, ZFS, etc.
It was Linux folks who invent things that are only compatible with
Linux and only until new fancy pancy Linux only revelation is
introduced then those solutions are not even Linux compatible anymore.
"Progress by Enforced Changes"^TM. It was Docker that did not take
other OS into consideration at design stage. It was SystemD that did
not take other OS into consideration at design stage, and now lots of
application follow that systemd core dependency making them hardly
portable to any other OS. What about kernel API changes with every
minor release that started around 2.4.11 (I was using Linux 2.0.36 /
~1998 .. 2.4.12 / ~2007)?=C2=A0 Look at DRM mess it introduced to graphics
driver world. How would you call that interoperability / portability /
long term maintenance? Linux by design is self-incompatible. Do you
really want us to to follow that "fashions" with a life span shorter
than a yogurt?
There are reasons for people avoiding Linux.
--=20
CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info
=20
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<html><head></head><body><div class=3D"ydp1542e6a6yahoo-style-wrap" style=
=3D"font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px=
;"><div></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">Probably the best thing I sa=
w that showed Linus' lack of understanding of proper engineering </div=
><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">was when he was talking on an annou=
ncement stage with people from IBM, HP, etc</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setd=
ir=3D"false">and someone in the audience stated/asked: "I've been doi=
ng a code review of your kernel</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"=
>and I'm a bit worried. I see a lot of places where POSIX standards h=
ave not been implemented</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">or inc=
orrectly implement. Will you be correcting the Linux kernel to POSIX =
compliant?"</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><br></div><div dir=
=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">After he said "No. I don't feel I shou=
ld be hampered by standards over creativity (or some such)"</div><div dir=
=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"fa=
lse">Those company reps literally dragged him off the stage.</div><div dir=
=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"fa=
lse">Paul</div><div><br></div>
=20
</div><div id=3D"ydpd342fc6dyahoo_quoted_1844892490" class=3D"ydpd3=
42fc6dyahoo_quoted">
<div style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, s=
ans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
=20
<div>
On Friday, April 14, 2023 at 04:21:14 PM PDT, Tomek CED=
RO <tomek@cedro.info> wrote:
</div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><div dir=3D"ltr">On Sat, Apr 15, 2023 at 12:46=E2=80=
=AFAM Mario Marietto wrote:<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">> So,let me unders=
tand : docker images aren't compatible with FreeBSD. Imagine that the FreeB=
SD jails will be not compatible with Linux. Wow,this is true interoperabili=
ty.<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Mario, (Free)BSD i=
s Unix derivative and thus standard compliant, look<br></div><div dir=3D"lt=
r">at sockets, IPv4, IPv6, Jails, ZFS, etc.<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><=
/div><div dir=3D"ltr">It was Linux folks who invent things that are only co=
mpatible with<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Linux and only until new fancy panc=
y Linux only revelation is<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">introduced then those =
solutions are not even Linux compatible anymore.<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">=
"Progress by Enforced Changes"^TM. It was Docker that did not take<br></div=
><div dir=3D"ltr">other OS into consideration at design stage. It was Syste=
mD that did<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">not take other OS into consideration =
at design stage, and now lots of<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">application foll=
ow that systemd core dependency making them hardly<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr=
">portable to any other OS. What about kernel API changes with every<br></d=
iv><div dir=3D"ltr">minor release that started around 2.4.11 (I was using L=
inux 2.0.36 /<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">~1998 .. 2.4.12 / ~2007)? Loo=
k at DRM mess it introduced to graphics<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">driver wo=
rld. How would you call that interoperability / portability /<br></div><div=
dir=3D"ltr">long term maintenance? Linux by design is self-incompatible. D=
o you<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">really want us to to follow that "fashions"=
with a life span shorter<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">than a yogurt?<br></div=
><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">There are reasons for people a=
voiding Linux.<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">-- <br>=
</div><div dir=3D"ltr">CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, <a href=3D"http://www.tomek.cedro.i=
nfo" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">http://www.tomek.cedro.info</a><br>=
</div></div>
</div>
</div></body></html>
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