From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sat Mar 20 12:02:13 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 037A457E75A for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2021 12:02:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mohammad@thelightbird.com) Received: from mail-lj1-x22b.google.com (mail-lj1-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::22b]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4F2fWm1c0Dz3vt1 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2021 12:02:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mohammad@thelightbird.com) Received: by mail-lj1-x22b.google.com with SMTP id 16so15109797ljc.11 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2021 05:02:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=thelightbird-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=i3oXvRgItVRmvs//3OY11omf3j8ieWFsw8zynkph7Pc=; b=bGaOALN5WOq/en5xOd6erof1hn3qsCwtpyOT/cn3cfZ339ivoHPvgGuAK/VNn4EUTs Kg2OfoGYd+WjfqDexeUS5Sj4fSOuAJZuMIOm7OxS2LF/f4Je1XO0bk6K4HWqBHeo4AqG zyOabRFg0hn+sg1Um5FOS1yQ+TEQo33l/uFgvj+BkNKgmtG4RYhzj9OZjG3P6l1Tkugs g7WOpV6FO/0NDgUYvqhmXmR/FMC6G2PxGWXLHFLtXgChOxrqtFNp4JuVRkdPYhSj/RHf 5nxC57M/Ho7NUbgFTnVg8bHKrthrdmdrzsKDn/jJMX9mAP3j4eyYyMXX+D/wucpYhwWC BYNQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=i3oXvRgItVRmvs//3OY11omf3j8ieWFsw8zynkph7Pc=; b=mP0mS3JiSmd66EvGbzupnCsqLZm1UF4CDsb9bgGQuVWJOyiVb9rZzAVshTJLxoLxpG J8HE8UxfoD4GOvZ8LGN1rtGzKhgVcLXsm/hpqVdgbF9ZPbPLydMlY/ZYBFttCW5rn2iP CEvNsuOw9PO2QUyocLdHqo5SkCaGeBF1KND2PkZTxBQtn7hyXu68vJeJ229dQkfHr7pQ ZB9PRdSFzzQHtnddzbxkDYkHFH4zlpxHABi0snkOjqATypX5HVZUhPjpAU8n9WuCmdif oSZWdcJIcfXFhmn1OH72OTsTWWhCt79Vku/oSQQ9Wfiwi/YLgjPXoS7mFOy0OdrLkg75 Tflg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532dWdRBEnKdacxMH8QMuJC6u4+yp91m7efY5z84jCYad8RF23qN 4oq6YYlhDNl2hVI+bDOaiMcoEBZthcFv2sMorvS2P1aXc6cD X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwT1WdmEvk8mGwDsLG9bsdS+e+tCjueFaQWJ34mQhFKtPyW8ZwdAHpgcmCDUkFPL/G521qtS1lmcJJCcR3OSF8= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:88ca:: with SMTP id a10mr3548108ljk.55.1616241730018; Sat, 20 Mar 2021 05:02:10 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20210319101040.00005c35@seibercom.net> <6054BE1B.50706@gmail.com> <20210319130249.000042a1@seibercom.net> <5a8cf0be-646a-a433-2428-9700a47c1bf0@att.net> <20210319140448.00007521@seibercom.net> <20210319213214.4f8ddf55@archlinux> <20210320063427.000040f5@seibercom.net> In-Reply-To: <20210320063427.000040f5@seibercom.net> From: Mohammad Noureldin Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2021 13:01:58 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: OS to replace FreeBSD To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4F2fWm1c0Dz3vt1 X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=thelightbird-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=bGaOALN5; dmarc=none; spf=fail (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of mohammad@thelightbird.com does not designate 2a00:1450:4864:20::22b as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=mohammad@thelightbird.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.30 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; R_SPF_FAIL(1.00)[-all]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[thelightbird-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; SPAMHAUS_ZRD(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::22b:from:127.0.2.255]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[thelightbird.com]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[thelightbird-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::22b:from]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; RBL_DBL_DONT_QUERY_IPS(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::22b:from]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.34 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2021 12:02:13 -0000 Hi all, I am new to this mailing list, using FreeBSD/*BSD on and off. Joined the mailing list because I have a couple of project ideas that I want to build on top of *BSD. Though I am new, and maybe relative to many others here I am a newbie, allow me to comment on all the aspects addressed (so far) in this email thread: - "It is easy to build a new (custom) kernel", "Unix is made by technical people for technical people", etc: Though historically it is true that Unix like systems are made by technical people for technical people, it doesn't mean that it has to stay like this. IMHO, such motto causes a great piece of Engineering like *BSD to loose ground for other Unix like systems, namely Linux and all it's Distros. Not that I am a Linux hatter, I have respect to both. Related to that, I don't believe that it is a good message to FreeBSD users, that if you don't know how to build a new kernel, then there is no place for you here. IMHO, this really hurts the image of the community of FreeBSD specially in the eyes of new commers. Notice these email messages are archived. - About the problem reported: Thanks for all who went through the long list of comments on that PR and explained in brief that it is a USB controller/HW problem. In that respect, I do agree with Jerry and others wondering how other OS(s) can manage running on the same HW (in case that has been proven) ? I believe it worths looking at that. I would have volunteered to dig deeper into that, but I know I don't have the required experience (unless someone is willing to mentor me ? :) ) And responding to that:"OK, just shut up and go install another OS", is not a community building attitude at all. And for the sake of discussion, let's assume for a second that Jerry is lazy or not skilled enough, helping him and fixing the problem or clearly explaining a solution without bashing him, is not just for Jerry, it is for the whole community, for the current and new members who will be interested to join in the future. Jerry, I am curious, did you have time to try one the suggestions, specially running FreeBSD on a VM to see if it still suffers from the same problem ? You all have a great day/evening On Sat, Mar 20, 2021, 11:35 Jerry wrote: > On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 18:30:00 -0400, Aryeh Friedman stated: > >On Fri, Mar 19, 2021 at 4:32 PM Ralf Mardorf > >wrote: > > > >> On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 11:16:33 -0700, freebsd@johnea.net wrote: > >> >Void uses a runit init system with no systemd > >> > >> Hi, > >> > >> I suspect it's not a good idea to use Linux without systemd. For > >> example, by upstream udev is part of systemd. Maintaining Linux > >> without systemd is a bottomless pit. > >> > >> On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 13:35:21 -0400, Aryeh Friedman wrote: > >> >Recompiling the kernel is *TRIVIAL* if you refuse to do it then you > >> >should not be using any Unix variant > >> > >> I dislike this tone of voice. However, I agree that compiling the > >> kernel might be less effort, than migrating to another operating > >> system. If you would e.g. migrate to Arch Linux, you need to get > >> used to systemd. Getting used to systemd isn't pleasant. If you > >> chose a Linux distro that doesn't use systemd, you likely will > >> experience all kinds of trouble, if you want to customize your > >> install. > > > >I used that tone because it really is simple and if you can't/won't > >recompile the kernel before throwing the baby out despite with the bath > >water then you really don't have the skills/desire needed to use Unix > >effectively... Just to show how trivial it really is > > > >1. Edit /usr/src/sys/amd64/conf/GENERIC (or i386 instead of amd64 if > >your still using it) to comment out the xhci line (line 327 in > >12.2-RELASE-pl3) to remove USB 3.0 support > >2. cd /usr/src > >3. make kernel > >4. etcupdate > >5. reboot > > > >Done.... how hard is that? > > I never said I could not compile a new kernel, I said I could not > install the OS. Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't the installation > of the OS precede the creation of a new kernel? Furthermore, the > screen just rolls away filling up with the error message ad infinitum. > > By the way, as I understand it, creating a custom kernel nullifies the > use of "freebsd update". Wow, things just keep getting better & better. > > What I cannot understand is that FreeBSD knows it has a problem, one > not shared by any other OS as far as I have been able to ascertain, > and I have done a lot of research, and they refuse to fix it. The > problem did not exist before version 12.x, so it is not like they never > were able to get it right. > > -- > Jerry > > > >