From owner-freebsd-net@freebsd.org Mon May 13 02:39:13 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-net@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B1B515A8C37 for ; Mon, 13 May 2019 02:39:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-qk1-x744.google.com (mail-qk1-x744.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::744]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A73D99379A for ; Mon, 13 May 2019 02:39:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-qk1-x744.google.com with SMTP id j1so7078657qkk.12 for ; Sun, 12 May 2019 19:39:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=rSI1uiXzXBL5E+ncyE/kAwGw4cGbyfPPHq5gaEJuv6o=; b=CUmpGGoixep2FWw3mJrV+7uA7wc70SirmuDYh0q3ZYXnRSwEF9dMKchrqusetW21Tx Vy2U6Mc42TjC9ssy+uMmwe3c9cMS4AEQCMZhvWjO01WxXnPucvqHEWW78cKSxqiNNh3c vTOpaL9g/Cih7TMjtBqj7lfND6vOqFLszIS+UoN0sjlMu7e/ris95WCPo4RHte/r3YGJ YUpSAnzZvOAjxr4kT+SkeJ2jVjDgGOECzgKrSW3sZ0QtFnsAi6skftlAEZbe+jpX2nmS of5AeX9jEZp82I5fHD539F84cHm5e+t9GYo1wioLZcDmbVewkspHxjAxMLwmtgc7qD7w JR7w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=rSI1uiXzXBL5E+ncyE/kAwGw4cGbyfPPHq5gaEJuv6o=; b=hC6oVSb8DC280qH/DTUj6DvM0ebDy/qQ6WHe79iA/RC6ggSCNjwwVRvTBeGoWBM9YB amLG9IngPshqhpEvn/wF03Ray7P6g9rXaOW9phaecdjklkZn5XolXHRFDL1Pno7UOKfh r7v5ZdhnylzcnAH2xr3S6p79EQ81cKVGE5K3m1B39WVnQqcnG5srcgynTiF6TBXuPtr3 kj7m8eLyjU0T2oUfUyBKgHQY2beSEVGYEP38tXVqIz/OJA6Tt3lHOeKgT4BvN8LZvF3d 48Vh0AXtzPazkGpV00f4+Q/ydXqHfeksGfQcmKBupd6iUBotvKV/1XYd5veRhLMG+v0Z oWuQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAX5Nd4OVpCSd3/AqwNRWjzkRfqfolBxfWJB/sG9z07FkH25hriB nBZCrhbRaTZnF4/JmY0vzonIi/iDj0kZ+Oso1itxVA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwreZnTOCz19gSwPsSwMkzb2khY60zi1Tih1vtDaz2z9ADLHgklV9IfiK0VmbXQITuA7oh69k4rISP+mIKT2p4= X-Received: by 2002:a37:9747:: with SMTP id z68mr21170758qkd.245.1557715150545; Sun, 12 May 2019 19:39:10 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <201905130017.x4D0HTkn085211@fire.js.berklix.net> <201905130226.x4D2QnWY039315@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> In-Reply-To: <201905130226.x4D2QnWY039315@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> From: Warner Losh Date: Sun, 12 May 2019 21:38:57 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: FCP-101: obsolete driver removal planned for 2019-05-18 To: "Rodney W. Grimes" Cc: "Julian H. Stacey" , Eugene Grosbein , Brooks Davis , freebsd-net@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: A73D99379A X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=CUmpGGoi X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.53 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.998,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; URI_HIDDEN_PATH(1.00)[http://www.berklix.com/~jhs/bin/.csh/customise]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-net@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[bsdimp.com]; RCPT_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[6]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.90)[-0.896,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[ALT1.aspmx.l.google.com,aspmx.l.google.com,ALT2.aspmx.l.google.com]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[4.4.7.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.79)[-0.787,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; IP_SCORE(-0.84)[ip: (1.38), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-3.25), asn: 15169(-2.26), country: US(-0.06)]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-net@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Networking and TCP/IP with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 May 2019 02:39:13 -0000 On Sun, May 12, 2019, 9:28 PM Rodney W. Grimes < freebsd-rwg@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> wrote: > > Eugene Grosbein wrote: > > > 11.05.2019 22:59, Julian H. Stacey wrote: > > > > > > >> 11.05.2019 21:32, Julian H. Stacey wrote: > > > >> > > > >>>> I've posted a review to remove obsolete 10 and 10/100 Ethernet > drivers > > > >>>> as previous approved in FCP-101. > > > >>>> The following drivers are slated for > > > >>>> removal from FreeBSD-HEAD (to be FreeBSD-13): > > > >>>> > > > >>>> ae, bm, cs, de, ed, ep, ex, fe, pcn, sf, sn, tl, tx, txp, vx, wb, > xe > > > >>> > > > >>> OMG ! ed ! That EOL's loads of PC boxes I have (& a show box of > > > >>> spare) that will never be able to upgrade. > > > >> > > > >> Do those boxes have 10M-only or 100Mbps variants of ed(4)? > > > >> What kind of hardware do they have (CPU and memory-wise)? > > > > > > > > Thanks for question. I ran a quick check: > > > > cd /usr/src; > > > > # Apply my patches: > > > > # customise `pwd` > > > > # http://www.berklix.com/~jhs/bin/.csh/customise > > > > cd /sys/amd64/conf > > > > grep device [A-Z][A-Z][A-Z][A-Z].small | grep ed > > > > DUAL.small:device ed > > > > FILM.small:device ed > > > > KING.small:device ed > > > > LAPA.small:device ed > > > > LAPD.small:device ed > > > > LAPL.small:device ed > > > > LAPN.small:device ed > > > > LOFT.small:device ed > > > > MINI.small:device ed > > > > SCAN.small:device ed0 at isa? port 0x280 irq 15 iomem 0xd0000 iosiz > 0x10000 > > > > SLIM.small:device ed > > > > SNOW.small:device ed0 at isa? port 0x280 irq 5 iomem 0xc8000 > > > > WIND.small:device ed > > > > > > I've asked not for configuration files but for description of hardware. > > > ed(4) supports many different models. Some of them do 10Mbps only > > > but some are 100M-capable including PCI-connected. > > > > > > And it's interesting to know what is CPU and memory type/amount of > boxes. > > > > Info I had long pre saved, exported here: > > http://www.berklix.com/~jhs/src/bsd/fixes/FreeBSD/hosts/ > > Many boxes run newer releases than logs show, but eg dmesg shows memory > etc. > > It would help if you could run this from the hosts directory above and > post the output here, I doubt anyone besides me well bother looking > any further than this email at this data, but they well if you post > this output: > > find . -type f | grep /dmesg | xargs egrep 'CPU:|real memory|Ethernet' > > That should give us machine name by file path, CPU type, memory and > what ethernet cards are in it. > > I found one box, the second one I looked at, > http://www.berklix.com/~jhs/src/bsd/fixes/FreeBSD/hosts/logs/blak/dmesg0 > that clearly has enough CPU and memory to run 13: > CPU: Pentium II/Pentium II Xeon/Celeron (334.09-MHz 686-class CPU) > real memory = 536858624 (511 MB) > ed0: at port 0x240-0x25f iomem 0xcc000-0xcffff > irq 5 pnpid EDI0119 on isa0 > ed0: [ITHREAD] > ed0: WARNING: using obsoleted if_watchdog interface > ed0: Ethernet address: 00:00:b4:36:a5:04 > > > Re Gary's: > > > 2) what versions of FBSD is Julian now running on his hardware? > > > 3) does he ever plan to upgrade this hardware to >= FBSD 13? > > > > Not many, if any of them; I should idealy find time to purge some, > > but I also have sundry newer PCs, & spare ed etc cards, so a pity to > loose ed. > > > > > > More generaly It won't be just me with ed. With 13 I can power up any > time, > > (+ other pcmcia & PCI & ISA cards in boxes) there's probably many more > globaly. > > > > But sys admins often don't have time to read developer lists like > > current@ & arch@. So developer considering zapping things, will > > not be seen by users it will hit later. > > > > First many will know is seeing in a RELNOTES "XYZ will be removed > > in release [0-9].[0-9]" No chance to answer an earlier "Are many > > still using XYZ, we're thinking of deleting it ?" > > I believe all of the proposed cards have been announcing > they are gone in FreeBSD 13 starting at FreeBSD 12. > > I am NOT clear if these gonein notices got backported to > 11, if not they should be ASAP as getting notice out to > the 11.3 users is important too. > > > If ed is the biggest legacy NIC, best be cautious ? > > I agree to some extent, but have no hard use evedence. > Last time I ran the reports from nycbug dmesg reports. Ed was rare starting in 7, and absent 9 and newer. That suggests it's once dominant position has decayed to almost nothing in the 25 years since it was king. I'd included this data at some point in the past, I thought. Warner > (BTW I also have 2 boxes running today's current, not just old Rels here.) > > > > Cheers, > > Julian > > -- > > Julian Stacey, Consultant Systems Engineer, BSD Linux Unix, Munich > Aachen Kent > > http://stolenvotes.uk Brexit ref. stole votes from 700,000 Brits in > EU. > > Lies bought; Groups fined; 1.9 M young had no vote, 1.3 M old leavers > died. > > _______________________________________________ > > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to " > freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > > -- > Rod Grimes > rgrimes@freebsd.org > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >