From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 6 07:57:08 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CC3716A420 for ; Tue, 6 Nov 2007 07:57:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com (wx-out-0506.google.com [66.249.82.237]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C43FC13C48E for ; Tue, 6 Nov 2007 07:57:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i29so1740336wxd for ; Mon, 05 Nov 2007 23:56:59 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=vIhVH+yMneNO9K+jITi6yC0PDwadTl/rVvqPGinM0gc=; b=tg2LXRLjkHyVQF64nqVz3vle/ZkeZndPHS4chxo0NmYo0O00YpiJd+jM3Bc6mKJ1DX163kqm80tsO988+BJVIW2CyeTMs/eReJkrZz766rMxPvuRFqqxcwW1ouZXGSNtnatMb+nfCnLQm2092NCsBQPmI9mHnj17HUHIXYO38vg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=mXCYSxndmUVcfuLu9FWgtHWUmjpqzR913ZmNL9OmDAtsQEGqER90oKBo1hzh1+LAeUMQAKNmBjbNdFkiSPHqg7r3fJJeCgiRbochtfckQyUVomg2qyL8AMhDCBkt0P9Xm9C6w7ojJ3A5aagQQz7sh/XifHnYo0ZlSg1aLzpZTIg= Received: by 10.90.95.11 with SMTP id s11mr4029261agb.1194335819462; Mon, 05 Nov 2007 23:56:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?192.168.2.2? ( [67.85.89.184]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id m30sm10682660elf.2007.11.05.23.56.57 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Mon, 05 Nov 2007 23:56:58 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <47301E48.1000409@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2007 02:56:56 -0500 From: "Aryeh M. Friedman" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20071101) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: =?UTF-8?B?6Z+T5a625qiZIEJpbGwgSGFja2Vy?= References: <472D56A1.7070206@gmail.com> <200711041119.45971.jrh29@alumni.cwru.edu> <472DD231.9030501@gmail.com> <472E67CC.9040201@delphij.net> <472E4FF0.3080801@gmail.com> <472EB211.7050001@delphij.net> <472EEADF.1000008@gmail.com> <472F466E.8050405@delphij.net> <472F5846.1020304@gmail.com> <472F5D9A.9050900@delphij.net> <472F6773.3080801@delphij.net> <472F6B02.2030801@delphij.net> <472F7C05.6050000@conducive.net> <472FCE60.9070806@gmail.com> <47301A4A.2030807@conducive.net> In-Reply-To: <47301A4A.2030807@conducive.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Wiki for discussing P35/IHC9(R)/SATA issues set up X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2007 07:57:08 -0000 > > >> 1. (I will dig the refs up in a few mins) this has been reported on >> multiple drives and ihc9 based controllers. So it is *NOT* a HW >> issue... see the wiki. >> > > Versteh. But *I* get grumpy when it is *so* easy to 'close the door > firmly' by slapping in last-year's scrap IDE CD or a diferent SATA > device, and *then* post with a great deal more certainty that those > options produced this or that difference. Or NOT. Ergo the problem > is more clearly ID'ed - or reconfirmed - each time. It is my turn to be grumpy I think: 1. All the stuff I am working with was "brand-new" (at least as far the retailer is concerned) as of Sept. 1 and all is SATA/300 2. In an other subthread I mentioned I finally got PATA/SATA working (i.e. co-existing) but the other 2 items on the wiki (plus the yet to be recorded acd one) are still in existence 3. The PATA/SATA issue was only fixed by a couple of new definitions in ata.c thus should not be considered anything more then a custom patch for my machine I think > > Surprises DO happen. Remember the CMD-640 ATA controller? Those folks > call themselves SiliconImage nowadays, but it was the tier-one > Japanese firm that 'foundered' the silicon. > >> 2. The only difference between different hardware is the implications of >> sw issues... for example I get timeouts but no infinite cycle when >> booting from cd >> > > ACK - and developers of software very seldom have access to even the > tiniest fraction of the hardware that the community at large have > their hands on. And that is why I volunteered to help out but it seems they prefer for me to just send various diag dumps so neither of us has any grounds for complaint here I think. > > On which score we ARE falling behind... Accelerating pace of 'new' is > the nature of the market. >From being around the industry since the late early 80's (I know you have been around longer) I have come to the following conclusions: 1. Every 10 years or so there is a whole sell revolution in hw interfaces 2. The last one was Pentium, AGP, UDMA and PCI in the mid early 90's 3. The current one is PCI-E, 64bit, Multicore and SATA Due to 3 I think if we get stuff right we are safe for a good 8 to 10 years. -- Aryeh M. Friedman Developer, not business, friendly http://www.flosoft-systems.com