From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Wed Aug 31 20:02:44 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F4169B78776 for ; Wed, 31 Aug 2016 20:02:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brooks@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net) Received: from spindle.one-eyed-alien.net (spindle.one-eyed-alien.net [199.48.129.229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CD42CD90; Wed, 31 Aug 2016 20:02:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brooks@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net) Received: by spindle.one-eyed-alien.net (Postfix, from userid 3001) id 51D135A9F2A; Wed, 31 Aug 2016 20:02:42 +0000 (UTC) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2016 20:02:42 +0000 From: Brooks Davis To: "K. Macy" Cc: Mark Linimon , Andrea Brancatelli , Erich Dollansky , Fernando Herrero Carr??n , freebsd-stable Subject: Re: Benchmarks results for Compilers on FreeBSD 11 Message-ID: <20160831200242.GC29873@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> References: <20160824045558.18c86764@X220.alogt.com> <3234db29c228879cc473deec0b09568c@schema31.it> <20160826132059.63c23ee5@X220.alogt.com> <20160828060601.08ea91a8@X220.alogt.com> <20160830074656.18bfaf05@X220.alogt.com> <20160831133642.GA25574@lonesome.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="OwLcNYc0lM97+oe1" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.6.1 (2016-04-27) X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2016 20:02:44 -0000 --OwLcNYc0lM97+oe1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 12:16:16PM -0700, K. Macy wrote: > On Wednesday, August 31, 2016, Mark Linimon wrote: >=20 > > I'll demur just a bit on your points. > > > > On Mon, Aug 29, 2016 at 08:51:02PM -0700, K. Macy wrote: > > > "we need a compiler to build the system" (a prebuilt package does that > > > just fine), > > > > Well, yes, for a tier-1 machine; and one that is connected to the netwo= rk. > > > > > I can't speak for the whole universe of users, but I think it's safe > > > to say that most users are not power users who individually configure > > > ports tailored to their needs. > > > > We've certainly tried to provide a migration path away from that, but I > > don't think anyone has statistics about how far along we are. IMHO we > > can't assume it's 100%, or maybe even 80%. > > > > > I think my experiences on Ubuntu [...] are illustrative. > > > > A number of years ago Ubuntu and FreeBSD had barely overlapping audienc= es: > > end-users and developers. With all the improvements to pkg and tier-1 > > packages I hope that is changing -- the goal of expanding the reach is > > why I supported all the changes I saw being made. > > > > But for me an attraction has always been "you can build it out of the b= ox", > > even if I rarely do it (e.g. I am not working in the kernel/driver area= ), >=20 > Can clang actually bootstrap from something like lcc? As far as I can tell > you need a fairly advanced C++ compiler just to build that compiler in src > - which already needs to be installed. It's not exactly bootstrapping from > Bourne shell. So I'm not sure "it's self-hosting" is even true, not to > mention that you needed a network connection to get src in the first plac= e. > Thus the whole argument strikes me as circular if not outright deceptive. Clang needs a pretty complete C++11 compiler and runtime which means modern gcc or clang. -- Brooks --OwLcNYc0lM97+oe1 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXxzfhAAoJEKzQXbSebgfAFKoH/2UPgbNQpjO57CYm2PVteWEa yujQFbcahT0VgB2dolhV3DgPS0/t/aWqtz4gahPZ3UvCUzcanDEhHK3GoH0647z5 vKgPpm1Iirpt8Q0OSs16IV89fVK0bL0YbMKOvFV6/yeLn2IxJPiXGCPXLJWQPHI6 INjaU1xQwBF9rYDKDM6/gembG6PpLgjHaO2W5EQxP6fbOCgdhaGJWeqyzxyI5mdy vkzJajsW2M4DBDEHdQhiiYoEQFcVN/BrrNouJl9aOCpoLdPxodmzuOFwVECL2bzt +DuMC/NUnqPrQH573Bxx3F4dBURYAxG6Lj0RrelCOS4sxTN+mT08pkxOLc8jn5w= =wLHH -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --OwLcNYc0lM97+oe1--