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Date:      18 Dec 1995 01:56:08 +0100
From:      tom@smart.ruhr.de (Thomas Neumann)
To:        Nate Williams <nate@rocky.sri.MT.net>
Cc:        current@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: Impressions of stability ( was Re: FreeBSD-current-stable ??? )
Message-ID:  <877mzv5gwn.fsf@smart.ruhr.de>
In-Reply-To: Nate Williams's message of Sun, 17 Dec 1995 15:56:08 -0700
References:  <7748.819191407@time.cdrom.com> <Pine.BSF.3.91.951217112810.440A-100000@knobel.gun.de> <199512172256.PAA21983@rocky.sri.MT.net>

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Folks, don't you think that this "discussion" is gaining a 
dangerous amount of emotional momentum - lets try to keep
it 'professional' instead of 'personal'.

Let me bring up a few words from the point of view of a 
mere -current user (I'm running -current for a few weeks now,
but up to now have been doing so in "read-only" mode, scanning
this list and trying to develop some feel for what's going on, but
if it's true that <20 people really actually *run* -current, well, then
my impressions might not be as unimportant as I thought them to be).

Personally, I'm experiencing relatively few problems with -current.
Maybe I'm just lucky and my combination of hardware components
is by mere coincidence one that uses the more stable drivers or
whatever - I really can't tell. I, too, have seen the whole system
crash for no apparent reason, but this has happened only twice
during the last four or five weeks, so I can live with that.
Following the discussion, I get the impression that one half of the
camp favours a more radical approach for 'making progress' while
the other half is willing to lengthen development time in favour
of a more stable code-base. Both points of view have their benefits,
as I'm sure you're all aware, but I must admit that the "-current" :-]
state of affairs is starting to get me worried from a software-engineering
point of view. I'm by no means a god-of-kernel-hacking, but years
of experience in large-scale application development have told me
the lesson that once you allow a large software system to "drift"
and destablize beyond a certain point it becomes *very* hard to get
the thing back on track. Once you begin losing the grip on where
to start debugging in case of problem reports and instead just
feel surrounded by "a little thing not working here, a little
thing not working there, and 1753 other little things not working
over there..." and you don't really know *why the hell* things blow up,
then, IMHO, it's time to concentrate on making things stable again
instead of going for even more new features. Speaking of feeping
creaturism, what actually *is* the list of new creatures scheduled
for 2.2? I've never seen an official list of "this is what we're
heading for" points. Having said that, I'd sure like to see a
more stable -current than todays.

-t




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