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Date:      Fri, 22 Jun 2012 19:15:25 +0200
From:      "Julian H. Stacey" <jhs@berklix.com>
To:        freebsd-security@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: / owned by bin causes sshd to complain bad ownership 
Message-ID:  <201206221715.q5MHFPJW052099@fire.js.berklix.net>
In-Reply-To: Your message "Fri, 22 Jun 2012 11:59:28 EDT." <20120622155928.GA9983@DataIX.net> 

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Jason Hellenthal wrote:
> 
> On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 03:43:47PM +0200, Julian H. Stacey wrote:
> > Hi freebsd-security@freebsd.org
> > On an 8.3-RELEASE running sshd, /var/log/auth.log 
> > 	Jun 22 12:54:06 lapr sshd[57505]: Authentication refused:
> > 		bad ownership or modes for directory /
> > Until I did
> > 	chown 0:0 /
> > ( It was previously
> > 	drwxr-xr-x  25 bin   bin       1024 Jun 20 19:53 ./
> > )
> > The chown is consistent with all of 8.3 /bin also being root & not bin,
> > 
> > BUT
> > 
> > Over use of Root seems Bad. 
> > Our ownership scheme has degraded compared to early 1980s Unix, where
> > 	most bin & lib files & dirs were owned by bin, except for
> > 		- a few SUID bins that Needed root
> > 		- occasional administrator droppings,
> > 		  temporary accidental files that glared at the eyeball,
> > 		  as root, cos near all else was just bin.
> > 
> > IMO very little in a system should be user root.
> > 
> > Apologies, but to guide replies :
> > 	(after threads burnt by a troll on another list)
> > 	I'd not appreciate replies just along the lines of
> > 		 "It has to be to satisfy existing software". 
> > 	I'd much rather receive replies along lines of 
> > 		"What would be best ownership scheme, advantages &
> > 		 disadvantages + should we change anything ?"
> > 
> 
> What are you currently using this in that is the cause of the problem ?
> 
> Is this a jail, physical system, VM ...

Physical.


> It is not really clear why you would want to change the permissions of
> root:wheel of / on any of these. 

To Increase security.
	More visual prompting of when juniot admins blunder& cerate
	junk as root
	A SUID with bin has less power than a SUID with uid=root
	Currently every binary in the system is one bit away from the jackpot,
	SUID root, why not convert most binaries to uid=bin, thenmost binaries
	are 2 bits away from jackpot, more safety in event of a blunder too.

> root is the owner of the system ... it

Only because it currently is, & you'r used to it ;-)
Remember back a few decades, Think more deeply, Why do you think it
_needs_ to be ? Unix didnt used to Want that, it was usualy  a blunder when
it occured.

	look at /etc/passwd
		root: entry has the shell,
		bin: entry is more limited, just has /sbin/nologin

The question is WHY did FreeBSD switch to promote everything to root ?
That it did so Way back proves nothing,
Cos further back Unix was bin.
It used to be a junior admin blunder to make everything root ;-)
IMO it still smells suspiciously like it.
I'd like to derate most binaries to have less privelige - bin not root.


> is pretty much a standard if not already that root owns everything so I
> am not really following why.
> 
> openssh in itself... I am glad it does this. If a system has been
> compromised by changing owner:group of / then it denies access to the
> whole system. This is a security benefit.
> 
> Security principles are well laid out and have not changed in a long
> time. Vering away from those principles will cause a LOT of
> administrative overhead as most software out there can expect a sane
> environment if / is root:wheel

Why FreeBSD needs everything root is beyond me, reduces security a bit IMO.
Sure FreeBSD currently wants everything root, but want != need.

Cheers,
Julian
-- 
Julian Stacey, BSD Unix Linux C Sys Eng Consultants Munich http://berklix.com
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