From nobody Fri Sep 6 08:36:42 2024 X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4X0V2P3t2Gz5WMcF for ; Fri, 06 Sep 2024 08:36:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from phk.freebsd.dk (phk.freebsd.dk [130.225.244.222]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4X0V2P2xDCz4dcR; Fri, 6 Sep 2024 08:36:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (unknown [192.168.55.3]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by phk.freebsd.dk (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 616F18928B; Fri, 06 Sep 2024 08:36:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: (from phk@localhost) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.18.1/8.16.1/Submit) id 4868agnQ042462; Fri, 6 Sep 2024 08:36:42 GMT (envelope-from phk) Message-Id: <202409060836.4868agnQ042462@critter.freebsd.dk> To: Antranig Vartanian cc: Alan Somers , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: The Case for Rust (in any system) In-reply-to: From: "Poul-Henning Kamp" References: List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <42460.1725611802.1@critter.freebsd.dk> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2024 08:36:42 +0000 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:1835, ipnet:130.225.0.0/16, country:EU] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4X0V2P2xDCz4dcR -------- Antranig Vartanian writes: > My point is: yes, we do need better languages. Yes, we do need memory-sa= fety = > and better tooling. But is Rust the answer? Rust is what all the cool kids run right now, which they will deny, claiming that Rust Is Simply Superior in replies to this email, despite this prediction. But as I said in an email a couple of days ago: We should not anoint some particular subset of programming languages or other. We should answer the question "What is FreeBSD?" in a way which does not contain a very short and controversial list of "approved programming languages". A pkg-based FreeBSD will allow the Rust people to write good code for FreeBSD in Rust, and C, C++, Go, Lua, OBERON or Ada can freely compete with them, without causing year-long slug-fests on the mailing lists. And if the INTERCAL people want to write FreeBSD kernel code in INTERCAL, they get to maintain whatever it takes for their compiler to grok the interfaces to the kernel, likewise for any other language. Poul-Henning PS: I'm disappointed you did not mention Ada with SPARK. -- = Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe = Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence= .