From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Mar 3 20:02:22 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 45719704 for ; Tue, 3 Mar 2015 20:02:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-lb0-x234.google.com (mail-lb0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c04::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B0107D5 for ; Tue, 3 Mar 2015 20:02:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: by lbiz11 with SMTP id z11so13652758lbi.3 for ; Tue, 03 Mar 2015 12:02:19 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=QTs2TY24yppJ/z1qUedRBoP9hhGW7coHvwot/ZbFOJg=; b=QVpdjYTcpjRCeOrNp+sPExMMPuZlBjlzZL/a8wZu7hHunbAQhVOcP1BppD+eubjDzK +sofRPPsaJrhEAc7jfQzPXzTdSwEE+sRlfRDH3xJx5AGQmroAnDkzuVNCthqZeKVj6VU 9SZiEEp3KmeyKmzGqanN6TQDegsqKi9wJEWn3iwm31qg3zhU27x7wS+KU9EK4pgLlBT8 W0i6SQRe6YHvH+QpiJOSEWgxPunyM/A9CtsI+5MJnOON1Jo4A45QuCytvLnIRBrBKHKu 1ofgPJgrOCv9+njy8UuGikx2VFTMDa03X/n1IenULLUNe49csBxAxqEL2TdmW1Blrxrd 4OVA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.152.20.201 with SMTP id p9mr555104lae.50.1425412939679; Tue, 03 Mar 2015 12:02:19 -0800 (PST) Sender: chmeeedalf@gmail.com Received: by 10.25.145.65 with HTTP; Tue, 3 Mar 2015 12:02:19 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <569FDEF4-D6D1-4994-A30B-9D9BCE8B1858@mu.org> References: <54F34B6E.2040809@astrodoggroup.com> <54F35F29.4000603@astrodoggroup.com> <54F429EF.5050400@freebsd.org> <54F46536.8040607@mu.org> <54F4C03F.7030704@freebsd.org> <54F4FECB.90501@freebsd.org> <197AA5DC-0591-4F71-BF10-51A5D8104C11@mu.org> <54F5270D.1010009@freebsd.org> <20150303173223.GQ95752@strugglingcoder.info> <93307065-F026-42DE-A2D2-3843619BAD1A@mu.org> <569FDEF4-D6D1-4994-A30B-9D9BCE8B1858@mu.org> Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2015 12:02:19 -0800 X-Google-Sender-Auth: X2Ne_VBO5cEMRShlAX0XzKpqb-o Message-ID: Subject: Re: Massive libxo-zation that breaks everything From: Justin Hibbits To: Alfred Perlstein Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Cc: Harrison Grundy , "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" , hiren panchasara X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18-1 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2015 20:02:22 -0000 On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 11:14 AM, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > >> On Mar 3, 2015, at 11:07 AM, Justin Hibbits wrote: >> >>> On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 10:39 AM, Alfred Perlstein wrote: >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>>> On Mar 3, 2015, at 9:32 AM, hiren panchasara wrote: >>>>> >>>>> On 03/02/15 at 07:33P, Alfred Perlstein wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Actually I want to shame third party ports into adopting libxo (or at least providing machine readable output). >>>>> >>>>> I know it's scary to try to lead the pack, after all we could be wrong, but maybe it's time to try something new and see what happens. >>>>> >>>>> And no, your idea doesn't make sense it just will lead to those files bit rotting. >>>>> >>>>> Bedsides that you don't even have a real spec other than "it should be done differently". >>>>> >>>>> Again, show the code. >>>> >>>> Wow. He told you want he didn't like and he moved on. I hope/wish we as >>>> a project can take criticism more positively than this. >>>> >>>> Answer to every criticism should not be "show me your code". We (should) >>>> know better than that. >>> >>> Maybe I am too old school but the motd on freefall is still "now shut up and code". I still believe that's right. >>> >>> We ALL need to know when to step back from an issue we really do not have the bandwidth to constructively contribute to. >>> >>> This doesn't mean ideas or concerns aren't valid, but that unless you truly have the bandwidth to contribute, taking a step back is a good idea. >>> >>> -Alfred. >> >> You're both right. Maybe we need a hackathon on this. Is BSDCan too late? > > Hackathon on what exactly? > > -Alfred libifying base. And, if there's still stuff that needs libxo'd, do that, too. Looking at both could help to derive a clean library API that libxo'd interfaces can use. libifying base has been on my "interesting TODO" list for the last 10 years or so, I just haven't had the inclination. Now that there's been a swell of support for it, getting people together to actually make it happen seems like a good idea. - Justin