Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2008 12:53:10 -0700 From: Jo Rhett <jrhett@netconsonance.com> To: "Bruce M. Simpson" <bms@FreeBSD.org> Cc: FreeBSD Stable <freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org> Subject: Re: CLARITY re: challenge: end of life for 6.2 is premature with buggy 6.3 Message-ID: <37414AAF-C75A-4292-A174-2198BEF2A7DF@netconsonance.com> In-Reply-To: <4847D5F8.80605@FreeBSD.org> References: <9B7FE91B-9C2E-4732-866C-930AC6022A40@netconsonance.com> <4846E637.9080101@samsco.org> <BFF61274-C192-4361-9DEB-93DED2E02CA7@netconsonance.com> <48472DB6.5030909@samsco.org> <6010676B-91B0-4AF8-ACF8-039A59B29331@netconsonance.com> <484736E0.6090004@samsco.org> <C69AC20A-225C-478D-B0C8-B2F018B555C6@netconsonance.com> <4847D5F8.80605@FreeBSD.org>
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(Top posted because I didn't want to snip what you said) Bruce, all of what you said below is well known. I understand and don't have any problem with this. You seem to be trying to address something I wasn't asking about -- certifications, etc and such. Not a concern. The question I raised is simply: given the number of bugs opened and fixed since 6.3-RELEASE shipped, why is 6.3 the only supported version? Why does it make sense for FreeBSD to stop supporting a stable version and force people to choose between two different unstable versions? Is this really the right thing to do? On Jun 5, 2008, at 5:03 AM, Bruce M. Simpson wrote: > It is worth remembering that FreeBSD is an open source project, > and it's maintained on a best-effort basis -- it is offered for free > and without any warranty. Like any other open source project, risk > management and change management becomes a two-way street, because > that's the trade-off struck with the open source model. > > The risks, as well as the benefits, have to be factored in > carefully to your company's technology strategy, as I'm sure you're > aware. > > I'm very surprised that the 6.3 train has been a big issue for > you, although speaking from the development side of the fence, there > are a lot of moving targets, and vendor support of the OS does play > a part. > It is difficult to offer any more specific advice without knowing > in more detail exactly what's causing such problems for you, > although I see you've offered general pointers, the folk directly > involved need to be pointed at direct information. > The FreeBSD Project just doesn't have the resources to do > compatibility testing on the scale of e.g. Windows Hardware Quality > Labs, as I'm sure you are also aware. > > I take on board what you say about your organisation holding back > on an upgrade because there are PRs filed for the hardware you use, > and having worked in an investment banking environment, I understand > this level of conservatism is warranted. > > However, I point out again: it's the open source model, and where > hardware compatibility is concerned, it really is a case of "suck it > and see". > Always has been, no different anywhere else. Open source requires > user participation. Microsoft run the WHQL because their status as a > going concern depends on it. > > I'm pleased to hear about your offer of hardware resources for > developers. However, this is only part of the problem. > To my mind, you need to find the right people, with the right > skills, to deal with the issues, and quite often, those guys are > already in demand, and thus their time can attract a high value. > Open source succeeds because money is not the only motivation. > The alternative is DIY, and that is "the point". > > If you need firm guarantees about support, consider contracting > with someone to do that. Many companies using FreeBSD already > outsource this kind of support requirement to 3rd parties. There are > also FreeBSD hardware vendors who support FreeBSD as a platform. > > If you want someone to take responsibility, make 'em an offer. > > thanks, > BMS -- Jo Rhett Net Consonance : consonant endings by net philanthropy, open source and other randomness
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