From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue May 25 16:45:32 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35DEA106567D for ; Tue, 25 May 2010 16:45:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from tower.berklix.org (tower.berklix.org [83.236.223.114]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96CA58FC08 for ; Tue, 25 May 2010 16:45:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: from park.js.berklix.net (p549A37B2.dip.t-dialin.net [84.154.55.178]) (authenticated bits=0) by tower.berklix.org (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id o4PGjTYp098795 for ; Tue, 25 May 2010 16:45:30 GMT (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (fire.js.berklix.net [192.168.91.41]) by park.js.berklix.net (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o4PGjZIE077628 for ; Tue, 25 May 2010 18:45:35 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fire.js.berklix.net (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o4PGjUlf001807 for ; Tue, 25 May 2010 18:45:35 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@fire.js.berklix.net) Message-Id: <201005251645.o4PGjUlf001807@fire.js.berklix.net> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org From: "Julian H. Stacey" Organization: http://www.berklix.com BSD Unix Linux Consultancy, Munich Germany User-agent: EXMH on FreeBSD http://www.berklix.com/free/ X-URL: http://www.berklix.com In-reply-to: Your message "Tue, 25 May 2010 17:23:56 +0200." <20100525152356.GA1466@britannica.bec.de> Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 18:45:30 +0200 Sender: jhs@berklix.com Subject: Re: GSoC: BSD text tools X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 16:45:32 -0000 Re. half baked proposal to delete groff: If you want to play, play with Linux, which has no tradition of what to expect. BSD by contrast is real Unix, those who've been in Unix business a few decades you know what real Unix is. More than just the toolchain to support make world. Look at Bell blue & yellow book & see a few tools there. Remember "least suprise". There's businesses use BSD as Unix, & like the Unix stability, If they wanted to play with trendy changing functionality they'd run Linux. Business users dont always monitor these lists though to protest every half baked idea though before its implemented. so for some ideas, there may be more young keen developers, who don't value stability, compared to the user base. Just because more may speak for an idea on list than against, doesn't mean it sensible. Dont ignore the user base, wider than the developer base, it creates users & BSD jobs too. Typicaly, it's not cost effective for me to argue more, maybe some who would delete groff have copious idle time, but I have to rush to travel to write & file a computer company annual report. ie Yes I've been in the business a few decades, & know what to expect of Unix. It includes not only [g]roff but other tools I would also not propose to chuck out, even if neither you nor I used them. PS For lateral business thinking, look up the history of Mr Beaching & how he continualy pruned the ends of British railway lines that were little used, till he killed good lines in the end. Now think of station groff on the end of a line, & you propose to close it, & tell users: Trans ship to the ports canal. Sigh ! Cheers, Julian -- Julian Stacey: BSD Unix Linux C Sys Eng Consultants Munich http://berklix.com Mail plain text, Not HTML quoted-printable Base64 http://www.asciiribbon.org