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Date:      Wed, 26 Oct 2016 12:00:33 +0100
From:      "Robert N.M. Watson" <rwatson@FreeBSD.org>
To:        =?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= <des@des.no>
Cc:        CeDeROM <cederom@tlen.pl>, freebsd-security@freebsd.org, Pawel Jakub Dawidek <pjd@freebsd.org>
Subject:   Re: FreeBSD Security Advisory FreeBSD-SA-16:15.sysarch [REVISED]
Message-ID:  <376CBFFC-8BE1-4401-984E-4E8BB336FE32@FreeBSD.org>
In-Reply-To: <868ttbwio9.fsf@desk.des.no>
References:  <20161025173641.BCDFD1911@freefall.freebsd.org> <20161026042748.GG60006@garage.freebsd.pl> <CAGMYy3v8KxuQfou0SmUNikghH-9NWfneoMPP_15F85WkDaUhKg@mail.gmail.com> <20161026061504.GH60006@garage.freebsd.pl> <0717BEFA-4E65-4990-AC50-FD80681C110C@FreeBSD.org> <CAFYkXjn39kKzcTY-pJObaVz8OGqbzCHE69kYAmRYtz5OX2kpAQ@mail.gmail.com> <868ttbwio9.fsf@desk.des.no>

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On 26 Oct 2016, at 10:42, Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav <des@des.no> wrote:

> CeDeROM <cederom@tlen.pl> writes:
>> Robert N. M. Watson <rwatson@freebsd.org> writes:
>>> In general, my strong recommendation is against issuing advisories
>>> for local denial-of-service attacks, (..)
>> I would prefer to get that information regardless of individual
>> preferences.
>=20
> It's not a matter of individual preference.  During my time as so@ =
(and
> Simon's before me), this was an explicit policy.  The reason is that, =
as
> Robert points out, there are a million ways for a trusted unprivileged
> user to cause a DoS, and most of them aren't even bugs.  Some of them
> can be mitigated using quotas or resource limits, but far from all.


I agree: it=E2=80=99s critical that security patches remain a =
high-signal, low-noise venue for conservative changes for which risk has =
been minimised (and carefully balanced against urgency of application). =
This is especially true for kernel patches, which not only suffer higher =
risk in general (it=E2=80=99s not just one application that crashes..) =
but also higher impact on uptime (since they require a reboot), etc. =
Risk is further increased with patches requiring reboots as they expose =
greater opportunity for operator error. Starting to ship large numbers =
of stability fixes via this mechanism will make it vastly harder for =
users to minimise downtime, which may have a much more substantial =
impact than the problem being fixed.

We do have a mechanism for shipping (and also batching) stability =
improvements, which is the errata note mechanism =E2=80=94 and that may =
be appropriate where there are a class of related critical stability =
(rather than security) problems, especially where they are seen =E2=80=9Ci=
n the wild=E2=80=9D and are impacting a substantial user base, which =
mitigates the former risks to some extent.

For non-critical stability fixes, then there is a source of continuous =
notifications and improvements available: the commit mailing lists. =
Every time a commit comes through saying =E2=80=9CFix a crash when =
<x>=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9CDon=E2=80=99t dereference a bad pointer when =
<y>=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9CEliminate a resource leak when <z>=E2=80=9D, then =
they are pertinent to a user trying to review and evaluate fixes =E2=80=94=
 but they will not have seen (and cannot, at that volume see) the level =
of individual review that a security update sees.

I am willing to see stability problems escalated to an errata note or =
security patch if we can convince ourselves that the risk imposed by =
shipping the additional patch is going to be counter-balanced by the =
benefits it brings =E2=80=94 but I think that case has to be made very =
carefully, because between the context for updates (rebooting real =
systems) and the chances of error (whether programmer or operator), =
it=E2=80=99s very easy for the cost to outweigh the benefit much of the =
time.

Robert=



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