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Date:      Wed, 30 Sep 1998 11:00:45 -0700 (PDT)
From:      Tom <tom@uniserve.com>
To:        Karl Denninger <karl@Denninger.Net>
Cc:        Dan Nelson <dnelson@emsphone.com>, Alfred Perlstein <bright@hotjobs.com>, current@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: Long IDE probes?
Message-ID:  <Pine.BSF.4.02A.9809301055290.7309-100000@shell.uniserve.ca>
In-Reply-To: <19980930125458.A4304@Denninger.Net>

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On Wed, 30 Sep 1998, Karl Denninger wrote:

> On Wed, Sep 30, 1998 at 10:31:25AM -0700, Tom wrote:
> > 
> > On Wed, 30 Sep 1998, Karl Denninger wrote:
> > 
> > > IDE by definition is probed by the BIOS before boot.  Either the disk is
> > > there or it is not, and you don't get out of POST and to Boot until that's
> > > determined.  Therefore, a long wait there is COMPLETELY pointless.
> > 
> >   Huh?  First of all, more than disks can be put on IDE, and the BIOS
> > doesn't know anything about that.  Most BIOSes don't probe IDE at all, but
> > newer ones do it to avoid static settings in the CMOS.
> 
> The hell it doesn't.
> 
> I've got several machines with IDE hardware in them.  All of them find
> things like CDROMs during the boot sequence (before loading an OS).

  Yes, newer machines.  The BIOS doesn't need to do that.  I have a CDROM
in an older machine here, and the BIOS doesn't grok it at all.  Basically,
the BIOS display is informational only (except for the boot disk).

> > > SCSI devices similarly are probed by the adapter BIOS.  Again, there is no
> > > reason for the long wait that I can fathom.
> > 
> >   For convienance only.  Some adaptors don't probe.  The adaptors don't
> > make this info available to the OS in any way, because the OS is supposed
> > to probe.
> 
> The point isn't that probing is bad (its not).
> 
> The point is that once the BIOS has taken the delay for spin-up, sent START
> commands to SCSI disks, etc., waiting AGAIN is a waste of time.

  Hehe... that is pretty funny.  I have a system here that will refuse to
start after a power-start because the BIOS can't find the boot disk
because it hasn't come ready yet.  It is a SCSI disk, and the SCSI adaptor
has probed it.  I need to warm-boot the system at the "Please insert boot
disk" message, and then it will boot from the hd.

> Are the delay lengths reasonable?  I don't know.  Aren't there specs on
> this stuff from the IDE and SCSI camps?

  The IDE delays just don't exist if you don't bother probing for devices
that aren't there.

  The SCSI delay is 10 seconds.

> --
> -- 
> Karl Denninger (karl@denninger.net) http://www.mcs.net/~karl
> I ain't even *authorized* to speak for anyone other than myself, so give
> up now on trying to associate my words with any particular organization.

Tom


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