From owner-freebsd-embedded@freebsd.org Wed Mar 9 01:48:38 2016 Return-Path: <owner-freebsd-embedded@freebsd.org> Delivered-To: freebsd-embedded@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A42BAC8F77 for <freebsd-embedded@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org>; Wed, 9 Mar 2016 01:48:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jeclark2006@aim.com) Received: from omr-m020e.mx.aol.com (omr-m020e.mx.aol.com [204.29.186.20]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 30DF3862 for <freebsd-embedded@freebsd.org>; Wed, 9 Mar 2016 01:48:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jeclark2006@aim.com) Received: from mtaout-mac01.mx.aol.com (mtaout-mac01.mx.aol.com [172.26.222.205]) by omr-m020e.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id D814638001BD; Tue, 8 Mar 2016 20:42:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from johnsnewbook.lan (datron9.dtwc.com [207.137.9.194]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mtaout-mac01.mx.aol.com (MUA/Third Party Client Interface) with ESMTPSA id 98D643800008A; Tue, 8 Mar 2016 20:42:44 -0500 (EST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) Subject: Re: ? about kernel size.. From: John Clark <jeclark2006@aim.com> In-Reply-To: <CAPKZHbV1D5hTXCCRAYy6XkkcqJEizHH8ymK5dgsCsvXEeRd5jQ@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2016 17:42:44 -0800 Cc: Adrian Chadd <adrian.chadd@gmail.com>, "freebsd-embedded@freebsd.org" <freebsd-embedded@freebsd.org>, Ian Lepore <ian@freebsd.org> Message-Id: <A40E6CF0-62D5-4956-A2BB-AAD7BFF60A6B@aim.com> References: <CAPKZHbVyPji-bZwDzM77TN6qybjRcf+Ze5r6WZmbG98LkhT-rg@mail.gmail.com> <CANCZdfriqr24Lh9ZuptaC0gEm6gAV6LN9XHcVAJtbyaBejEgNg@mail.gmail.com> <CAPKZHbW+G7WnSU__yeYBVPqs8MPmFm-5q_wM4sm9FxHhEEgPDg@mail.gmail.com> <1457473674.1406.46.camel@freebsd.org> <CAPKZHbX8BXKC_=8PPvtasqE+Rj96_mPQkqdRt=hqU6fazxpPfA@mail.gmail.com> <CAJ-Vmo=yW0=VHkjed8NYxRmE7dqtd8=bN8KLmav9-bBEZ-U1YQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAPKZHbV1D5hTXCCRAYy6XkkcqJEizHH8ymK5dgsCsvXEeRd5jQ@mail.gmail.com> To: Brad Walker <bwalker@musings.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aim.com; s=20150623; t=1457487765; bh=an385YoKYEVIkCpM9FWOGkmo1Hv74j072WVGcGmIf2A=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-Id:Date:Mime-Version:Content-Type; b=JstC+lZyy2fDdfxHxSp4VyFq8NSxJBD0CNwi0itwXMHkq1lYe27eVMSypGZs9GJOc yI7W+MsWV/hIJ/5h3MfIMvqoNAT+uc9KEaaIcDJjbNjyhGFgDWdVrn2eZKjHP1RvhA 7kpqfa8UhMsUtckOcGOnaj7Bji7UXeCIVVUbrO40= x-aol-sid: 3039ac1adecd56df7f943c18 X-AOL-IP: 207.137.9.194 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.21 X-BeenThere: freebsd-embedded@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems <freebsd-embedded.freebsd.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/options/freebsd-embedded>, <mailto:freebsd-embedded-request@freebsd.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-embedded/> List-Post: <mailto:freebsd-embedded@freebsd.org> List-Help: <mailto:freebsd-embedded-request@freebsd.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-embedded>, <mailto:freebsd-embedded-request@freebsd.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2016 01:48:38 -0000 On Mar 8, 2016, at 5:20 PM, Brad Walker <bwalker@musings.com> wrote: > For example, we have a requirement to implement SSL/TLS, BTLE, and ftp = on a > microkernel. By the time this is done, it will be worthwhile to look = at > alternatives. Not to mention, the needs just keep coming. >=20 > -brad w. At which point I become very vociferous in arguing against using a = process so limited that it can=92t run a BSD/Linux derivative. This sort of happened with the recent brush with the 8051=85 The Boss = wanted to have the 8051 do some TCP/IP with some sort of Ethernet interface that was available from the company that made the = 8051=85 At which point I found a $15 AP based on MIPS/Atheros SoC, and provided = not only TCP/IP but also a local hotspot for control/monitoring, = ethernet hub, mini http server, etc. If someone wanted to reduce cost from $15 they could have gotten the = Eval package and gotten the design to a manufacturing house for much = less as well=85 Of course they would talking about volumes many times greater than 100s=85= The 8051 controller was still in there, but the =91fancy=92 stuff was on = a board that could handle =91fancy=92 stuff without making the project = 2-3 years worth of development on a minimal processor platform. Another aspect of the =91minimal system=92 that is required to do = =91fancy=92 stuff, is that often the TCP/IP implementation is sort of = =91half-baked=92 and can introduce problems which go far beyond just not accessing the device=85 it could cause problems for = the entire network, and require much debugging to solve=85 or even = understand what=92s going on=85 This may be ok if the devices are located in conveniently accessible = locations=85 but if one has to go to a remote location via helicopter or = pack in equipment with mules=85 such issues become bigger than the cost savings of some minimal = solution. John Clark.