From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 30 09:29:09 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9A5016A4CE for ; Tue, 30 Nov 2004 09:29:09 +0000 (GMT) Received: from faceman.servitor.co.uk (faceman.servitor.co.uk [80.71.15.146]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2209043D39 for ; Tue, 30 Nov 2004 09:29:09 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from wiggy@servitor.co.uk) Received: from wiggy by faceman.servitor.co.uk with local (Exim 4.30) id 1CZ4K6-0000Is-KK; Tue, 30 Nov 2004 09:29:26 +0000 Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 09:29:26 +0000 From: Paul Robinson To: Eric Kjeldergaard Message-ID: <20041130092926.GD68012@iconoplex.co.uk> References: <20041129024602.GA23324@turingmachine.mentalsiege.net> <1101748454.41ab58e61eb88@imp2-q.free.fr> <1101788709.41abf62519b57@imp2-q.free.fr> <20041130002603.692153b7.cpressey@catseye.mine.nu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Sender: Paul Robinson cc: Chris Pressey cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The beastie boot menu. X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 09:29:09 -0000 On Tue, Nov 30, 2004 at 09:06:42AM +0000, Eric Kjeldergaard wrote: > Well, I should say that the FreeBSD team has made an official > statement regarding that. > > http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/faq/introduction.html#FREEBSD-GOALS > > This seems to outline the goals of FreeBSD. Now it is true that these > goals are a bit "vague", but that is because FreeBSD is what we OSSers > call very very large. That is not an outline of the FreeBSD project. That is an outline of the open source movement operating under a BSD license. Technically, Apache has the same project goals as FreeBSD if you consider that section to be our project goals. I think what is being asked for is a clear direction. OpenBSD strives to be the most secure OS. NetBSD strives to run on the most platforms. OS X strives to be the best consumer OS. What does FreeBSD strive to be? What direction is the project taking? For example, one bikeshed inadvertently kicked off by myself a year or two back was how much effort should go into making FreeBSD "BSD-pure" so that it was an attractive OS for commercial entities to put into their own applications, embedded devices, etc. Another bikeshed was how much effort should be put into making FreeBSD easy enough to install and manage that our technically incompetent relatives could use it. There are arguments on both sides of the camp, and ultimately what results is code forks - DragonFly is a fork resulting from a clear vision of what FreeBSD should be that went unsupported by many people involved in FreeBSD. This is nothing to be ashamed of, but the chance we could have taken then to say "look, this is really what FreeBSD is about" and let people take that technology and do other things with it (yes, a bit like Linux distros, I don't see the harm) is not something the project should be scared of. So, what is FreeBSD's objective? If as a project it's sole rasion d'etre is to just exist for the sake of existing - for people who want to play with developing a BSD Unix to be able to play with a BSD Unix then so be it, let's clarify that. If it is to be a platform for other projects to sprout from to hit certain needs (FreeSBIE, DragonFly, etc.) then let's codify that and make it clear. If it is to provide the best BSD Unix on the planet, then let's shout it from the rooftops. At the moment it's a "thing a bit like Linux but it's BSD and it has really good documentation and a decent-ish package/ports system". Which is refreshing as mission statement go in it's naivety, but not going to attract developers. This is quickly going to bikeshed if we're not careful, but I think IMHO FreeBSD should aim to be the best of breed in some core technologies and make it easy to build application servers - want a desktop? do this; want a web server? here, we made it easy for you. It's a niche the project already fills but doesn't shout about. We don't talk about what FreeBSD is great at because we don't know what it should be great at. -- Paul Robinson http://www.iconoplex.co.uk/ "All I know is I'm not a Marxist" - Karl Marx