From nobody Sun Jan 22 18:28:25 2023 X-Original-To: questions@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4P0MF20D6Lz3NM2L for ; Sun, 22 Jan 2023 18:28:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from paulbeard@gmail.com) Received: from mail-yb1-xb35.google.com (mail-yb1-xb35.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b35]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1D4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4P0MF12b2yz3jx5 for ; Sun, 22 Jan 2023 18:28:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from paulbeard@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=O9OpusEF; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of paulbeard@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::b35 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=paulbeard@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com Received: by mail-yb1-xb35.google.com with SMTP id p188so12380777yba.5 for ; Sun, 22 Jan 2023 10:28:37 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=cc:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=JF01cCHY3d1aZtMMrBxfegfeNHyflHikMzTM3c+RVGo=; b=O9OpusEF1KAnHUByJec+JrXdqErc4JWxoYU61oHaEzPBLO6Lllx4snn2JzgxSUio5/ 2BvORZ8XndTHakBbxdo48rVtM0LwChkOEyUEd3uZAC5PcG50xWsz9dvmb2uaQcV1wMXm Z57x9ZjWjyQTKlUE0Gr+ugzoGxYjbTlVw1aCLHA3u2g3MyjdLYwfZlcBjGLLX0BeeA0m Q0L+43+aL5XcCV9GEF6yh1jILbT35ZKrPe6xaW+VR3prPpD6f6WMsCSEWqoSSxBXzt8R m5OxkCO796jC0djfLKOIMJXVuSCzv4vOyAz3zxSnyzMXxhtEaiPi1BJ0bVF6HFCcSovG qDyw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=cc:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=JF01cCHY3d1aZtMMrBxfegfeNHyflHikMzTM3c+RVGo=; b=nsNW8DylIGCDOQ+L3adcuUOZdbatLo9QNntmYQj5xeyLFCwWi6iWNgagwJnqkAyLPs mMc1yAD8agvGlwPdM0hbYZz6Vg7q6aKf87Iwo7rF9FDSWN39+bGa291qBPKUDpMwXiPE MJczAmX8jX/9MXRaCuSwU1lfQKxu9GlTS5IEJfAqQp2LvQFfySX4qoFJ45I2U4l2GS7m 87Pp+bk5hjfx+iiL1abeqjpdqIbFUfxPbFVAYFfHvxovpWZ4T1fqE48OESz6u8Y6D5Sn /Jyqf9YYxgMq2SmPlkPKIId67gRWnCzU4vLgLXSVcUWBeiB3/tctOVgtD51jktXoHJ7J Bsng== X-Gm-Message-State: AFqh2koUGy+2ybuBgdnlPscle7EFCFYjbTyiTfRt4HApB8QJ5mu0mbKW 5Bmc9DZMCwFBj3k7vuY4LIHmZyvpTLukYzEUh2dXzeDm X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMrXdXvV/RmqoMtr+gMgDA5B+8jd63pvGJSBO7ZL+B69PT0l7FKFvG2HMvIpb+BTeFOoC/TvHdGG1P+Oq3zWsjTTPx4= X-Received: by 2002:a25:7483:0:b0:7b5:b5c6:9439 with SMTP id p125-20020a257483000000b007b5b5c69439mr1857143ybc.383.1674412116401; Sun, 22 Jan 2023 10:28:36 -0800 (PST) List-Id: User questions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1889CB4C-4B11-4178-8446-97DA9E5EC35A@nimnet.asn.au> <20230122060127.GB8068@eureka.lemis.com> <20230122164001.2cbb15735780a9934989e951@sohara.org> <20230122174334.1e8b75ddc197472a4be3e33d@sohara.org> In-Reply-To: <20230122174334.1e8b75ddc197472a4be3e33d@sohara.org> From: paul beard Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2023 10:28:25 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Out of order posting (was:: Load 0.20 on a freshly installed idle system) Cc: questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000067e5df05f2de7353" X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.16 / 15.00]; MISSING_TO(2.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.98)[-0.985]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.95)[-0.954]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.78)[0.783]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20210112]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::b35:from]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[questions@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[questions@freebsd.org]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROMTLD(0.00)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4P0MF12b2yz3jx5 X-Spamd-Bar: / X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N --00000000000067e5df05f2de7353 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable [context deliberately excised] This seems to be a perennial topic that also seems to be addressed by Postel's Law. Email has become a victim of its own success, with so many clients/MUAs adding their own "enhancements" along the way. I agree that interwoven replies with vigorous removal of unneeded text makes the most sense in terms of clarity (I can't recall in which of the several iterations of this debate this came up.) Given the ubiquity of gmail, making that change =E2= =80=94 making the reply text a quoted block where replies could be interwoven, rather than top-posting =E2=80=94 would make an enormous difference. But th= en we get into the long grass with de facto monopolies and whatnot. Maybe we could not treat this topic as the catnip it seems to be=E2=80=A6let it go, = no one will change their mind and no MUA will be rewritten to meet anyone's expectations. --00000000000067e5df05f2de7353 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
[context deliberately excised]
<= br>This seems to be a perennial topic that also seems to be addressed by Po= stel's Law.

Email has become a victim of its own success, with s= o many clients/MUAs adding their own "enhancements" along the way= . I agree that interwoven replies with vigorous removal of unneeded text ma= kes the most sense in terms of clarity (I can't recall in which of the = several iterations of this debate this came up.) Given the ubiquity of gmai= l, making that change =E2=80=94 making the reply text a quoted block where = replies could be interwoven, rather than top-posting =E2=80=94 would make a= n enormous difference. But then we get into the long grass with de facto mo= nopolies and whatnot. Maybe we could not treat this topic as the catnip it = seems to be=E2=80=A6let it go, no one will change their mind and no MUA wil= l be rewritten to meet anyone's expectations.
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